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Old 04-16-2003, 04:25 PM   #41
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Default Re: Re: India another target?

Quote:
Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
You went nuke without any threats around that needed nuclear deterrence. That looks aggressive.
if you read the history of the region there were plenty of threats around. india's protector, the soviet union, was gone. china, a nuclear power, and a not-very-friendly country shares a border with india, and pakistan began acquiring missiles from north korea (the gauri missile). there was also evidence that pakistan was developing a nuclear program with the aid of china :

Quote:
China has allegedly provided assistance directly to Pakistan's nuclear weapons program in the past. The United States government concluded that prior to its 1992 accession to the Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT), China had assisted Pakistan in developing nuclear explosives. For example, in 1983, US intelligence agencies reported that China had transferred a complete nuclear weapon design to Pakistan, along with enough weapons-grade uranium for two nuclear weapons.

In 1986, China concluded a comprehensive nuclear cooperation agreement with Pakistan. That same year, Chinese scientists had begun assisting Pakistan with the enrichment of weapons-grade uranium, and China also reportedly transferred enough tritium gas to Pakistan for 10 nuclear weapons. Since then, China has supplied Pakistan with a variety of nuclear products and services, ranging from uranium enrichment technology to research and power reactors. China allegedly involved Pakistani scientists in a nuclear test at its Lop Nur test site in 1989.
sounds like very credible threats to me.
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Old 04-16-2003, 05:48 PM   #42
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Give it another 10 years and a concerted effort by China and India to cement decent trade relations and either of the pair will be in a position to chew up the US and spit it out like an unwanted piece of gum!

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Old 04-16-2003, 05:51 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gurdur
Have you ever encountered Indian cooking ?
Best damn cuisine on the planet!

(second only to Chinese of course! )

I could quite happily spend the rest of my life eating out at Indian and Chinese restaurants, and believe me I could do so in the UK without ever visiting the same one twice!

Amen-Moses
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Old 04-16-2003, 06:08 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amen-Moses

Best damn cuisine on the planet!
I was making a joke regarding the amount of oil commonly used in real Indian cooking.
We're talking major cholesterol here --- ghee, anyone ?

Quote:
(second only to Chinese of course! )
Purely subjective, of course, but I would say that while Indian cooking is very good (and I cook in Indian style / foodstuffs myself), it comes definitely after Indonesian, then Thai, then Vietnamese, then Chinese cooking.

I have never had the opportunity to try Laotian or Cambodian cooking --- I would like too.

Armenian brandy and derevi dolmades, Azerbajaini or Bulgerian coffee, and an Australian T-bone steak with fresh snow peas make for heaven.
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Old 04-17-2003, 07:02 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gurdur
But it was directed partly at me ?

You still haven't explained the connections.
How about actually tackling the points raised ? Again, you are simply not making statements connected to the discussion, or especially to anything I have said.
If you wish to indulge in Pollyannaish or Panglossian sentiments, don't do it on my time.
You have not tackled the points, and you have provided nothing of substance in reply to me.

I guess I'll simply continue the conversation with others more interested in the actuality of the situation.
I didn't come here to talk to only you gurder -just state a few opinions. Do whatever you wish with them, I'd rather debate something worthwhile. :boohoo:
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Old 04-19-2003, 09:40 PM   #46
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Of course, India has been asked to supply cheap labour at the bottom rungs and a technocrats at upper rungs --- so I guess we would not be immediately bombed.
But, while it is more moola for us, can't help wandering, with all the jobs lost in America, should not Americans get preference first?


PS. As a matter of interest there was an advertisement in Delhi newspaper asking for only non-Muslims to apply for jobs in American bases for Kuwait. When the newspaper published it the American embassy insisted that they had nothing to do with this discriminatory advert.
Obviously the American establishment already feels Muslims are not to be trusted.

You will be happy to know [sarcasm] that my mother and an uncle who was against nuclear weapons (violence, other priorities) now feel that they need the bomb after all; having WMD now makes them feel secure in a world where might is right. :boohoo:




Optional said:
_______________________________________________
My boss is actually hoping that we invade India next.
I'm a programming consultant, BTW.
He's hoping we nuke all them damn indian outsourcees.
___________________________________________


Damn! And McDonald's cannot get a foothold either! Still, there are too many Pepsi and Coca-Cola factories all over India --- so that should be some kind of protection!

Gurdur said,
__________________________________________-
the ultra-nationalist and ultra-Hindu party BNP, and many ultra-Hindu fanatics, have been quite active against both Moslems and Westerners inside India.
_________________________________________

It is BJP.
Yes, they regard Muslims with suspicion but given Islamic terrorism from both sides of the border they have cause enough. And add to that we have Islamic groups protesting that one law for all citizens is 'unsecular', clerics explaining that killing of a cow is a meritorious act for a Muslim precisely because it hurts Hindu sentiments, they are getting more support.
They are not against westerners but against Christian evangelists. Be fair, Gurdur. Do you want Billy Graham at your doorstep?

Happy Wanderer said,
______________________________________________
Nonsense. India is perfectly safe unless someone discovers large oil reserves there
__________________________________________________

Arrgh! There had been recent large discoveries. The govt. tells us that even if OPEC raises prices India would now be able to tide it over. And the oil industries are nationalized�
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Old 04-19-2003, 09:47 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by PsycheDelia
i would hope to goodness that india's leaders know that an attack on pakistan would only increase islamist terrorism in the country. unlike the united states for whom international terrorism is a fairly new phenomenon, india has lived through numerous terrorist attacks including the bombay blasts in 93 which was probably the worst act urban terrorism till sept 10 2001.

then again, it might just be wishful thinking on my part to assume that india will exercise restraint, and that the usa will not use aggression in that part of the world....
Since you are from India can you say it is how long are we supposed to exercise restraint? We have tried that and in the last 12 years roughly 30,000 people have died, security forces and civilians included. Many are asking if a conventional war could have produced higher figures?
Do you remember how Bangladeshi Islamic govt. returned the Indian border guards, all Hindus?. They had been tortured, their eyes and genitals gouged off while alive, and their bodies were returned hanging like a slaughtered animal from two poles. The Islamic terrorist State dared to do that only because they knew we wouldnot send a group of assassins nor go to war. To certain kinds of people, restraint means weakness and invitation to further attack.
As for increase in Islamic terrorism, it has been on the increase for several years. The reaction had been the growth of extremist Hindu groups and their support base is growing. If we do manage to settle the Pakistani question, frankly it would benefit I think the Indian Muslims most.

Also your post would indicate that the Mumbai blasts succeeded in their objective. they terrorised many people enough not to want to crush out the prime sponser of terrorism, even while terrorists murder with impunity oridnary citizens.
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Old 04-19-2003, 10:22 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loren Pechtel

You went nuke without any threats around that needed nuclear deterrence. That looks aggressive.
[troll]
Former British Colony,

Split into smaller parts,

Has repeatedly beaten off Muslim neighbours attacks,

Suffers from State sponsored terrorism from neighbours,

Fuck Loren, guess you'll be telling us Israel doesn't need nukes either!

(oh wait they don't have any)

[/troll]
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Old 04-19-2003, 10:27 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by hinduwoman

PS. As a matter of interest there was an advertisement in Delhi newspaper asking for only non-Muslims to apply for jobs in American bases for Kuwait. When the newspaper published it the American embassy insisted that they had nothing to do with this discriminatory advert.
Obviously the American establishment already feels Muslims are not to be trusted.
I don't think it's that they don't trust all muslims. It's that by excluding muslims you make it harder for terrorist agents to infiltrate. Sensible safety precaution.
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Old 04-19-2003, 10:36 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by hinduwoman
Since you are from India can you say it is how long are we supposed to exercise restraint? We have tried that and in the last 12 years roughly 30,000 people have died, security forces and civilians included. Many are asking if a conventional war could have produced higher figures?
The problem is that Pakistan is a nuclear power. You're (Pakistan is also) still using non-nuclear standards of international relations. Yes, their conduct is totally out of line. If you could remove the threat like we just did with Iraq I would not find it an immoral course of action.
However, you both have nukes. The bombs would fly. A 7-figure death toll would be quite likely and an 8-figure one wouldn't surprise me. That's why we are saying you need to exercise restraint. That 30,000 that have died in 12 years would die in 12 seconds under a mushroom cloud--and probably more than once.

There is *NO* good answer to the situation.
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