echidna

River I'm afraid that doesn't count for a rebuttal. If it does, then Kat's "not another Islam(ic) link" is entirely equivalent.

There were also two other posts of mine on the first page which you may have missed. Presumably for your argument to be convincing, G_d might will you to answer a little more definitely.

Iasion

Greetings River,

Well,
the Quran of Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud (who Mohammed considered the best memorizer and reciter) apparently omitted Suras 1, 113, and 114. Variations between Ibn Mas'ud's version and the Zaid text filled 19 pages in the Kitab al-Masahif.

Also,
the Quran of Ubayy ibn Ka'b (the Master of the Readers) differed vastly from the Zaid text, largely agreeing with ibn Mas'ud. This variant text included 2 extra Suras not now found in the Quran: al-Hafd (the Haste) and al-Khal' (the separation).

These two lost Suras are also found in the codex of Ibn Abbas.

There is much evidence to show that material has been lost from the Quran, e.g. : "We used to read a verse of the Qur'an revealed in their connection, but later the verse was cancelled. It was: "convey to our people on our behalf the information that we have met our Lord, and He is pleased with us, and has made us pleased". (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 5, p.288)." Many Hadiths refer to Suras which are not in the Quran today.


Apparently there were 6 versions of the Quran in use when Uthmann chose Zaid's text (Abu Bakr's) and had the rest DESTROYED.

Even today, there are 10 variant "versions" of the Quran (the 7 main variants and the 3 minor variants), although there has never been a "critical edition".


Iasion

River

hmm.....interesting..... I will have to get back to you on this one.

Boro Nut

Well of course I'm averse to Amen. I'm an atheist aren't I?

Nickle

I noticed that you completely dropped the figures in your OP. Are you in agreement with the criticisms, or did you forget about it?

If your not dropping the argument, did you look these up?
allah satan
cold hot
jesus moses
sun moon
forgiveness murder
faithfull marriage
war famine

Do they match?

The new stuff you copy and pasted from a website is the same error as in your opening posts. They are skimming through the book trying to find what matches up while ignoring what doesn't match up. Finding similarities in such a large book is not surprising. There are far more non-similarities, but they don't show up on your website.

You posted this is the science forum parroting the statistical perfection of the qur'an and then didn't show any stats and didn't answer the criticism of echidna's post nor my post from the first page.

Frankly these qur'an numbers people are not even that good or creative when compared with the bible code people, or the nostradamus guys. These guys even have found the WTC and SARS in the bible. Like I said, amateurs.

Moderators, if this is just gonna turn into a qur'an lesson, you might as well throw it into BC&H.

nogods4me

River:

Surely Melville is the messiah, as proven HERE!

How can you doubt these plain prophecies of death?

Rusting Car Bumper

Your explaiantion is simply and factually incorrect. Its an attempt to put a bandage on the fact that the Qu'ran, like all other ancient texts, are part products of their culture and as a result contain various mistruths contained in those cultures.

DC

River

I disagree.

River

I dont know what you are talking about. First of all, Allah and Satan are not polarities. In Islam, Iblis ( Satan) asked permission from G-d before G-d places Judgement on Him. He asked for respite. Satan is Subservient to G-d and is not a god himself.

Secondly Jesus and Moses are not polarities....I dont' even know what possessed you to put them together. Jesus appears 25 times in the Qur'an and the word Moses appears 165 times in the Qur'an. They are neither directly opposite or "in similitude".

Sun and Moon are not polarities either.....

River

I dont know how you got those figures. the word , " Jesus" appears 25 times. Perhaps you included his titles like the arabic word " Masih" ( the Christ) to come up with the inflated number 28.

For a detailed breakdown of all occurences of Jesus and Adam. Take a look.

http://fakir60.tripod.com/jesus.htm