Bree

I think that's Christianity's biggest weapon. Homosexuals are already looked down upon by society. It's easy to feel bad about being gay - I think almost everyone coming out of the closet has felt this way, regardless if you're from a religious family or not - the shame and fear are virtually built in. The only thing left for Christians to do is take that initial shame and fear and turn it into guilt.

Illithid

Well, Old Man seems to have best answered the original question. Of course, the question assumed Christinanity to be true, which is kind of like asking a medical resident for a diagnosis based on the assumption that illness is caused by demonic possession.

I attended once a seminar proposing to explain how homosexuality was not actually condemned in the Bible, or at least that the modern conception of a same-sex relationship was not what was meant. It was totally unconvincing. What apalls me is that so many gays cannot set aside the crushing weight of their faith, despite the fact that it is the cause of so much self-inflicted misery.

And it seems to me that Christians preferentially target precisely those who are not "well-adjusted and happy". Hit them when they're down. Salvation Army, Campus Crusade, they find the poor, the lonely, the traumatized, and give them the good ole' love-buzz of Jesus. Since this is in many cases reinforced with years of childhood indoctrination, ignored rather than conciously discarded by the targeted individual, it often works.

Old Man

Many young people let themselves be carried away with their desires. The bible places a lot of emphasis on self control. Lack of self control is severely condemned from Genesis to Revelation. Read Proverbs epecially - its a great place to start in the bible, because it deals with practical morality with which everyone can identify.

But as for sexual/initimate desire, the bible permits marriage from puberty, and in many cases, it is the failure to get married reasonably young, and stick with a single spouse, that can lead quickly to moral abandonment.

Unfortunately, the bible records that marital problems in youth - i.e the failure to marry a suitable spouse, can lead to even greater problems later. Eg: Samson, Esau & the israelites who married foreign women in Nehemiah and Ezra.

No & no, I would never contemplate becoming "friends" with one. They physically repel me. In any case, given that I believe all unrepentant homosexuals over 21 ought to be executed, they are hardly likely to want to be friends with me.

Its difficult to answer your ranting because it is illogical. To unbelievers, the bible is and always will be a hate book, because it condemns their wickedness. That is inevitable. Just as the criminal justice system is a "hate" system to the professional crook, because it condemns his theft.

Nevertheless, the bible's message is one of uncondiional forgiveness, and that all men must repent in response to it. Have you?

HelenM

Actually, that's not a Biblical reason:

1 Sam 16:7 The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

Anyway how is it that people could repel you physically who don't look physically different? Or do you think all homosexuals do look physically different?

They probably wouldn't, no, given that belief of yours.

Is that belief based on the Old Testament? Are you still under the Old Testament law, then? Do you also keep Saturday as the Sabbath and keep the Jewish food laws, etc?

Helen

Jack the Bodiless

Old Man:
Then it is very likely that you are a repressed homosexual yourself.

This is evident in your belief that homosexuality is a "loss of control". As a heterosexual myself, I do not believe that I am "holding back" by not indulging in homosexual acts: I simply do not feel any inclination to do so.

But I know several homosexuals, and they are thoroughly decent people. There is no comparison between them and the other subjects of Paul's homophobic rant. Homosexuality does not lie at the bottom of a downward moral slide.

Paul was himself a repressed homosexual, in all probability. He didn't like women, and suggested that his followers should not marry.

Spaz

Wow dude, you are fucked up. I think Jesus himself would've backhanded you for that one. I agree with Jack that chances are you're a repressed homosexual, you do seem to hold something against women and a lot against homosexuality, I'm not a homosexual but I don't care if somebody else is one, that's their own business, not mine.

Treacle Worshipper

Hi Old Man, good to see you back again. I see you've decided not to respond to my post, which is a shame, because I was interested in your answers to my questions.

Originally posted by Old Man
No & no, I would never contemplate becoming "friends" with one. They physically repel me.
To echo HelenM, how do you know that someone is gay just by looking at them? If you work with other people, chances are that some of them are gay, and you won't know unless they choose to tell you.

In any case, given that I believe all unrepentant homosexuals over 21 ought to be executed, they are hardly likely to want to be friends with me.
You are probably right. Please consider this: If your opinion was to become law, it is likely that there would be a lot of false repentance among gays. Do you think that this is better than people coming to believe in god and repenting honestly? Remember that you would be unable to tell who was sincere in their repentance, as only god knows the heart.

To unbelievers, the bible is and always will be a hate book, because it condemns their wickedness. That is inevitable.
This is not strictly true. There are many thing in the Bible that I object to because I think they are wrong, but there are also things which I can accept, such as the golden rule.

Just as the criminal justice system is a "hate" system to the professional crook, because it condemns his theft.
Once again you have compared homosexuality to criminality. Once again, I point out that one chooses to become a criminal, but one does not choose to become a homosexual. I would appreciate it if you addressed this point. How can someone be held responsible for something which they have no choice about?
Looking forward to your reply,
TW

Spaz

Oh yeah, and another thing, I knew about this guy, I think his name was Hitler, yeah, I think you'd be bestest friends

Old Man

Looks give way to words, manners, attitudes within a few seconds or minutes, leading to easy identification in many.

The Old Testament law was law for a national legal system. In that sense, whether Old Testament law subsists is a matter of fact, and I can agree firmly that Old Testament law no longer exists in occidental countries.

It also serves as a personal moral code and as a moral basis for enacting legislation. Just as the death penalty is retained for murder, so ought it to be retained for homosexuality. It reflects the seriousness of the crime before God, and its deeply corrupting influence. (Of course the deist/atheist society of today does not recognize this - but then that is its problem.)

Old Man

Homosexuality has been a criminal offence in many European countries for hundreds of years. It shows well the corrupting influence of homosexuality that you should wish to slander me just for believing homosexuals to be moral criminals.