Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Doubting Didymus · 09-02-2002, 04:23 PM

Good grief. How do they manage to chew it? I wouldn't have thought you could do it with flat molars and no incisors. Do they swallow it whole?

Albion · 09-02-2002, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Apparently if you feed cows enough meat, they develop a taste for it and go out in search of more.

although, if it continues...

...the whole country comes down with Creutzfelt-Jakob disease.

Coragyps · 09-02-2002, 06:59 PM

Was it John Cleese's line...."That most dangerous of animals...a truly clever sheep!"

Doubting Didymus · 09-02-2002, 07:25 PM

That was Graham Chapman. (picky picky).

RufusAtticus · 09-02-2002, 09:36 PM

The photo is from the cover of Journal of Applied Ecology in 1996. It concerns a paper on cattle nutrition. Specifically, when the land is overgrazed cattle will eat flesh. Sometimes the overgrazing is the result of an out of control rabbit population, and farmers have introduced biological controls to kill the pests. Cattle can either scavenge dead rabbits, or catch dying and blind ones to chew on.

The significance is that Leviticus 11:6 is wrong.

It's not that rabbits chew their cud, it's that rabbits are chewed as cud.

Oolon Colluphid · 09-03-2002, 12:50 AM

I forgot to mention the punchline to what I was asked. Here it is in full. Read it and weep (with mirth):

Quote:

It is telling that if one compares the DNA of a human, a cow and a kangaroo one finds that the human DNA is more similar to the kangaroo (a marsupial, of course) than the cow (a fellow mammal). Why is this? Probably because the kangaroo is a biped with more morphologically in common with a human than the cow.

Oolon

Oolon Colluphid · 09-03-2002, 01:03 AM

...Which I guess means that if we can show that kangaroos are not closer to humans, the creator does not use similar DNA for similar (

) designs...

Though for some reason I don't think I can be bothered... the constant <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> , oddly enough, sometimes just gives you a headache

.

Oolon

Albion · 09-03-2002, 01:57 AM

Still waiting for his response...

What's betting that this'll turn out to be one part of one protein or something? It's not like they've sequenced the whole kangaroo genome, after all. The thing I'm really wondering is if he meant kangaroo rat rather than kangaroo. If he did, I guess we won't be hearing from him again.

monkenstick · 09-03-2002, 02:40 AM

Blast pairwise alignments of cytochrome b

Human/cow

Sequence 1
lcl|seq_1
Length
1135
Score = 292 bits (152), Expect = 5e-76
Identities = 496/663 (74%), Gaps = 2/663 (0%)
Strand = Plus / Plus

Sequence 2
lcl|seq_2
Length
1140
(1 .. 1140)
Score = 206 bits (107), Expect = 5e-50
Identities = 307/407 (75%)
Strand = Plus / Plus

Theres a big gap in the middle of the alignment - thats why there are two different alignments here

human/kangaroo (macropus giganteus)

Score = 581 bits (302), Expect = e-163
Identities = 780/1019 (76%)
Strand = Plus / Plus

there aren't any big gaps in this alignment

The results are strange - i tried to do some blasting using 16sRNA, but I can't bloody find human 16s ribosomal RNA (i personally think the search engine at NCBI sucks)

monkenstick · 09-03-2002, 03:04 AM

BLAST alignments of cytochrome c oxidase subunit III

human/cow

Score = 554 bits (288), Expect = e-155
Identities = 613/779 (78%)
Strand = Plus / Plus

Human/kangaroo

Score = 358 bits (186), Expect = 7e-96
Identities = 579/779 (74%)
Strand = Plus / Plus

different story this time - illustrates the problem of inferring phylogeny from a single gene. To do it properly you'd want to use DNAml or DNApars to construct a 16sRNA tree using a number of different marsupial/ungulate/primate species. I used to have access to a program that could do it easily - not anymore.

finding genes on NCBI can be very irritating

(for instance, when the words "bos taurus mitochondrion" are typed in the search field, the first hit is;

1: NC_003074
Links

Arabidopsis thaliana chromosome 3, complete sequence
gi|22331929|ref|NC_003074.3|[22331929]

...its totally baffling)

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09-02-2002, 04:23 PM	#21
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	Good grief. How do they manage to chew it? I wouldn't have thought you could do it with flat molars and no incisors. Do they swallow it whole?

09-02-2002, 06:59 PM	#23
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	Was it John Cleese's line...."That most dangerous of animals...a truly clever sheep!"

09-02-2002, 07:25 PM	#24
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	That was Graham Chapman. (picky picky).

09-02-2002, 09:36 PM	#25
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	The photo is from the cover of Journal of Applied Ecology in 1996. It concerns a paper on cattle nutrition. Specifically, when the land is overgrazed cattle will eat flesh. Sometimes the overgrazing is the result of an out of control rabbit population, and farmers have introduced biological controls to kill the pests. Cattle can either scavenge dead rabbits, or catch dying and blind ones to chew on. The significance is that Leviticus 11:6 is wrong. It's not that rabbits chew their cud, it's that rabbits are chewed as cud.

09-03-2002, 01:03 AM	#27
Oolon Colluphid Contributor Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Alibi: ego ipse hinc extermino Posts: 12,591	...Which I guess means that if we can show that kangaroos are not closer to humans, the creator does not use similar DNA for similar ( ) designs... Though for some reason I don't think I can be bothered... the constant <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> , oddly enough, sometimes just gives you a headache . Oolon

09-03-2002, 01:57 AM	#28
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	Still waiting for his response... What's betting that this'll turn out to be one part of one protein or something? It's not like they've sequenced the whole kangaroo genome, after all. The thing I'm really wondering is if he meant kangaroo rat rather than kangaroo. If he did, I guess we won't be hearing from him again.

09-03-2002, 02:40 AM	#29
monkenstick Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 214	Blast pairwise alignments of cytochrome b Human/cow Sequence 1 lcl\|seq_1 Length 1135 Score = 292 bits (152), Expect = 5e-76 Identities = 496/663 (74%), Gaps = 2/663 (0%) Strand = Plus / Plus Sequence 2 lcl\|seq_2 Length 1140 (1 .. 1140) Score = 206 bits (107), Expect = 5e-50 Identities = 307/407 (75%) Strand = Plus / Plus Theres a big gap in the middle of the alignment - thats why there are two different alignments here human/kangaroo (macropus giganteus) Score = 581 bits (302), Expect = e-163 Identities = 780/1019 (76%) Strand = Plus / Plus there aren't any big gaps in this alignment The results are strange - i tried to do some blasting using 16sRNA, but I can't bloody find human 16s ribosomal RNA (i personally think the search engine at NCBI sucks)

09-03-2002, 03:04 AM	#30
monkenstick Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 214	BLAST alignments of cytochrome c oxidase subunit III human/cow Score = 554 bits (288), Expect = e-155 Identities = 613/779 (78%) Strand = Plus / Plus Human/kangaroo Score = 358 bits (186), Expect = 7e-96 Identities = 579/779 (74%) Strand = Plus / Plus different story this time - illustrates the problem of inferring phylogeny from a single gene. To do it properly you'd want to use DNAml or DNApars to construct a 16sRNA tree using a number of different marsupial/ungulate/primate species. I used to have access to a program that could do it easily - not anymore. finding genes on NCBI can be very irritating (for instance, when the words "bos taurus mitochondrion" are typed in the search field, the first hit is; 1: NC_003074 Links Arabidopsis thaliana chromosome 3, complete sequence gi\|22331929\|ref\|NC_003074.3\|[22331929] ...its totally baffling)

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