lunachick

York,

You need to travel, man.

I am half German and was born in Bavaria, between Munich and the Alps - where it all began. It happened, alright. Go to the sites - from the camps and death chambers to the Eagle's Nest and labyrinth of tunnels beneath the mountains. You'll learn much about how insane Hitler was, and the truth of what he and the Nazi's did.

I find it unbelieveable that people can deny that this ever happened. Hard evidence is everywhere. Also, horrors happen all the time under vicious and paranoid regimes - look at Pol Pot and Stalin, for starters. What makes you think that Hitler was any different?

SLD

So York, you think those Neo-Nazis and KKK'ers would never really knowingly lie now, would you?

Anybody who thinks David Duke even "seems" intelligent is not. Instead of visiting hate sites on the internet why don't you just read? You can read can't you? It's a lot easier than spelling. Just go to a library and check out a couple of good history books.

Or are you, as I suspect, about 10 to 12 years old?


:banghead: :banghead:

SLD

John Hancock

[Flame removed]

ju'iblex

er, hello? I have met a woman, Babette her name is <lovely woman> who lived through auschwitz, her mother was gassed, she dug her sister out of a gas chamber, she was one of the people herded into the trains, she survived two nazi death marches and a 7 year stay in a Warsaw ghetto. We have pictures of the thousands of dead bodies, and the experiments the Nazi's performed on their victims, and you tell me it didn't happen?

And if you think her simply telling me these things proves nothing, then how do you explain the Auschwitz number still tattooed to her wrist?

Hedwig

York, you might want to check out Why People Believe Weird Things by Michael Shermer. He has a respectably long chapter on Holocaust denial and those people who perpetuate it.

My mother was an Army brat and spent a couple of years in the early sixties living in Germany. She's seen a lot of those places for herself.

Was there a Holocaust? Yes. Without a doubt.

Born Free

York

There is a video you can get that shows Auschwitz immediately after it's liberation. It is authentic film shot by the Russians, 18 minutes of which was shown at the Nuremberg trials as evidence.

The cameraman who captured this on film was Captain Alexander Voronstov, it was recorded over two months Jan/Feb 1945. He gives an interview in this video explaining his feelings. It shows everything, from the remains of the crematoria blown up by the nazi's before the death marches commenced to the state the surviving 6000 prisoners were in. It shows awful, awful things but they are all very real. I have watched it once and have no great desire to watch it again for a while or I would be able to detail more for you.

Once you have seen the evidence with your own eyes not merely listened to someone who clearly has a hidden agenda you will be left with the truth and do come back and tell us how you feel about it.

The six million murdered jews is only an estimate, I reckon it's far too low.

To ALL of the nazi's victims for what they suffered, my heart is eternally broken, I can't think of any other way to put it.

matthias j.

It will only get worse as time goes by. Survivors are getting older and older, the collective memory shifts it's attention, mass media makes people gullible, etc. Here in Belgium we have anti-revisionist laws to protect history, but that's no real solution either. Eventually it will just be a dim light deep down in the abyss of time I guess :-/

To the threadstarter: because the Talmud is an awfull book (well in your opinion at least) the Holocaust didn't happen? You should read the Bible, Revelations ie, Christians aren't so happy about non-Christians either, does that give me the right to deny 9/11?

-FPY-

What if she is? It's a possibility. Elie Wiesel, everyone's favourite survivor, was a liar, after all.

Excellent straw man, absolutely excellent.

Have you read some 'historical' accounts in the Talmud?

Why not? There's a lot of guilt around.

That is a simply ridiculous and a facetious statement.

Who says the Jews are "innocent?"

This is possibly the only statement which is reasonable.

That political organisation is a joke and a complete and utter irrelevance in this situation. What if some historians are motivated by the truth?

Likewise, why don't you check these out:

http://www.codoh.org/
http://www.ihr.org/

That organisation is simply ridiculous and not to be trusted.

Note: I don't care whether there was a holocaust of Jews in Europe, I simply found your comments too offensive to ignore.

lunachick

I lived in Israel, and I am a Palestinian supporter. That does not negate the fact that I met at least 10 Jews with concentration camp tattooos. ALL of those tattoo "holders" were not media "whores" - all they wanted was a quiet life. They didn't even want the shit that is constantly going on with Israel/Palestine - they just wanted a "normal" life.


Fuck the fucking Talmud, and the fucking Bible, and the fucking Koran. What is your point here? They are all shit.


Oh, please! History is full of evil-doings - an earlier post of mine mentioned Pol Pot and Stalin. There are many more. Some rely on religion, some rely on ethnicity, some rely on political affiliations - are you telling me that any stupid reason will do? Of course there's a lot of guilt around - and rightly so. (And no, I'm not just speaking holocaust in that statement).


And your statements are not facetious because...


And your point is?

Who says they are not "innocent"? What is "Innocent"?


Excuse me?
And the "truth" (tm) is....?

There are many links one might find "useful" according to ones agenda. What is it about those links that you think are "useful" in this topic?


Oooh. Not hard line enough for you?

For someone who "doesn't care enough", your input has a slant that belies a person that cares plenty about an agenda that suggests more than simply being miffed at "comments too offensive to ignore".

Born Free

Elie Wiesel, everyone's favourite survivor, was a liar, after all.

What exactly was he lying about in your opinion???


quote:
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Originally posted by TomboyMom
York: I repeat: my mother was incarcerated at Auschwitz. Her entire family was murdered there. She survived only because she was young, healthy, and therefore valuable to the nazis as a slave. She personally witnessed the gas chambers, the lines of people being herded into them, the corpses being removed daily. Are you calling my mother a liar?
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What if she is? It's a possibility

You're bang out of order and I suggest you might like to apologise to the lady for it.