Mageth

Diana:

Love that stable simile! :notworthy

Magus55

Um, why do you assume i want you to go to Hell? Do you really think i'd be wasting my time trying to bring you all to Christ so that you can receive his gift if i wanted you to go to Hell?

And what are you trying to get at with that scripture? Jesus is saying that not everyone who just calls on him as Lord without believing in it is saved. You have to desire to do the work of the Lord too. Witnessing to unbelievers is just one of the many works of those who are saved. If i wasn't saved i wouldn't care about witnessing to you, nor where you end up.

Mageth

You have to desire to do the work of the Lord too.

Ooo-kay. Actually, it says you have to do the will of the Lord, specifically to do the things Jesus is saying in these scriptures (see v. 24). Desire's not going to cut the mustard.

Read the first few verses of Matthew 7:

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Apply that, and the previous scriptures I posted, to your comments here (emphasis mine):

But think i'm done with this thread now - since most of you have said even if God stood before you and said Hi - you would deny it or not believe in him - nothing anyone says will ever get through your thick heads.

But again, when you find out Christians are right and your stupid free-thinking individualism - lets express ourself and deny anything else attitudes are shoved in your face by God himself - try not to kick yourself too hard - there will be enough pain in Hell for you. God has the final say not you - deny Him all you want - you will be judged.

Note that here, you're expressing your judgment on us. There's more than one beam in your comments, if you'll honestly check your own eyes instead of ours.

diana

It isn't difficult to be self-consistent in a book that boasts as many identical passages as the Koran.

Offhand, I'd estimate that if all the repetitive passages were removed, leaving only one expression of each thought, the Koran would only be about one-fifth of the size it is. Or smaller, even.

d

GreggLD1

They didn't. The Gospel accounts were written to conform to Scripture--Scripture wasn't fulfilled in history.No, flawed logic on YOUR part. First, the Apostles didn't write the Gospels. Second, we're discussing the authenticity of the Gospels, and you're using the Gospels themselves to argue for their authenticity. "The Gospels must be authentic because the Gospels say Jesus fulfilled prophecies before he met the apostles." This is circular reasoning.I just don't get this argument at all. It seems like you're assuming, for the sake of argument, that the apostles DID make things up to make it look like Jesus fulfilled OT prophecies? So, why would they have had to know Jesus from birth, if they're making things up about him? Can't they make up stories about his birth without having witnessed his birth? Making up fanciful stories about the births of important people was all the rage in those days.Easy. He didn't fulfill any prophecies at his birth. The account of his birth is legendary fiction.First, King David probably didn't write the Psalms. They've just been attributed to him.

Second, the writer of Psalm 22 is talking about himself, not Jesus.

Third, the gospel writers wrote a fictional account of the crucifixion, drawing details from Psalm 22 and other places in the Scriptures. Why they did this is a very long and involved story, which I won't hit you with just now.The apostles didn't record anything. The gospels weren't written by eyewitnesses. And no one's saying the apostles "made up" the prophecies. Other people made up stories about Jesus to make it seem like he fulfilled Biblical "prophecies," many of which aren't really prophecies at all.You're the one making the lame arguments.There is no comparison here whatsoever. EVERYTHING written about Jesus really was written by his followers, and ONLY by his followers. There is NO contemporary documentation of him outside the Letters and the Gospels. On the other hand, there is ample attestation, from multiple sources, as to the existence of the other people you mentioned.There's no evidence that God exists, is omnipotent, and can stop time. That's really a weak claim. And an unsupported assertion.

You are also changing Scripture. It doesn't say God stopped time. It says he caused the Sun to stand still so the battle could continue in daylight (if he'd stopped time, wouldn't the battle have stopped as well?). But since the Sun is stationary, God would actually have had to stop the Earth's rotation. Ergo, the Bible is wrong. There's no special way you can read this passage to make it right.Please provide the quotes from people who said this.And vice versa, it appears.This is remarkable.

Here we have it--a free confession of the true fundamentalist Christian agenda. It is nothing less than the overthrow of the basic principles upon which this nation was founded--free thought and individuality. Rights enshrined in our founding documents, rights won only after centuries of struggle against the awesome powers of Church and King, rights for which Americans have shed rivers of blood, rights which at this very moment are being threatened by fundamentalist fanatics of another monotheistic faith closely related to the Judeo-Christian tradition. The right to rule your own mind and your own life, the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." These rights are "stupid."

Mark Magus55's words well.And we close with the vengeful vindictiveness of the faithful.

Gregg

Magus55

Well let me ask you all this. If the Bible is a legend, completely fictional - why is it the most influencial book in history, why does it have the most accurate copies with the least time span between original and first copy, why is it the most well known, popular book on earth in over 2000 languages.

After all, tons of fantastic fictional stories were made up during those days - why have none of them had the overwhelming effect that the Bible has? No other holy religious book has had anywhere near the influence the Bible has.

Oh wait, maybe i can answer myself - the billions and billions of Christians since the Bible was written were and are suffering from mass delusion?

diana

Very nice work, Gregg. One tiny point:

Not everyone here is American.

Of course, judging from the quality of his posts, I'm fairly certain Magus is.

But still.

d

Spaz

Yes

GreggLD1

Thanks, Diana. However, since fundamentalist Christianity is a uniquely American phenomenon, and Magus55 is from this country (MD, Maryland)--hard to put it any other way.

Gregg

Magus55

Gregg or Diana care to explain my question with a little more effort and thought than spaz? Hope you didn't hurt yourself responding to that Spaz - seems to have taken alot of effort