eldar1011

Get Your War On (23)

My favorite line from this site:

sir drinks-a-lot

There is quite a difference between saying there is no evidence that Saddam Hussein has anything to do with the WTC disaster and saying that it is a fact that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with the WTC disaster. Koyaanisqatsi has chosen the latter. This is a claim, and as you have stated, claims require evidence. Koyaanisqatsi claims it has been "conclusively shown" but has failed to provide his proof.

Proxima Centauri

I just hope this time our two governments have done the right thing, quite possibly for the worng reason.

Zar

No, no, no. You are again trying to invert the epistemology. You have not altered the debate here one bit. We are going around in circles.

First, the claim that there is no evidence to support an accusation, which is essentially what I took Koyaanisqatsi as saying, requires no evidence except to show that there is no evidence. The lack of evidence is the conclusive proof of this negative. It is literally impossible to go any further than this. It has to be that way, as I've repeatedly explained.

But let me re-examine this idea once more in the hope that we can come to some mutual understanding of this important concept.

Let's say you lost your basketball. You might approach me and say, "You took it." I might say, "No, I didn't. You probably lost it." Then you might say, "Let me look in your room for it, " and I say, "Alright, as long as I'm with you so you don't do anything funny in there." You look and look, and you find nothing. You insist I have hidden it somewhere else. You look and look throughout my house and find nothing. I get tired of you and toss you out on your ear. You insist I have your ball. Then you get a bulldozer, come back and wreck my house to my horror! You still cannot find it in the rubble and you have done a huge injustice to me in the process. Then you start accusing my neighbors of hiding the ball for me. You ransack and bulldoze their houses, too. Then the block. Then the neighborhood. Then the town. Then the region. And so on.

All the while, the ball was stuck behind the backboard of the basketball hoop on your garage.

Now, logically, you could keep destroying things until you get to the moon. And here is one important connection between the logical situation and the law. To avoid the horror and injustice just described, it is necessary to first find the evidence before killing the suspect. Killing the suspect first in order to maybe or maybe not find evidence is the inversion of law and justice. It is nihilistic destruction.

Koyaanisqatsi

Perhaps you didn't read the first page where I presented my evidence in support of my claim?

As I also pointed out in that post, Congressman DeFazio is a member of the House Select Committee on Homeland Security, with jurisdiction over the newly created Department of Homeland Security, so when he tells Congress that neither our own intelligence community nor the British intelligence community can find any links to al Qaeda, well, I tend to trust him just a tad.

The fact is that it was the Bush cabal who alleged there was a link and then failed to provide any substantive evidence to either Congress of the UN. As DeFazio stated to Congress on two separate occasions, "[N]either the US nor the British intelligence services can find the slightest link between al Qaeda and Iraq." and, "They can find no links to al Qaeda."

I would argue that as having "conclusively shown" no links to al Qaeda, wouldn't you?

Or do you have evidence that neither the entire American nor British intelligence community with extremely vested interests in proving a link, nor a Congressman who is a member of the House Select Committee on Homeland Security with jurisdiction over the Department of Homeland Security is in possession of?



Not to mention all of the other information that's been provided by myself and others here. One cannot get more conclusive than "They can find no links to al Qaeda," or are you arguing that just because two of the world's most elite intelligence communities can find "no links" (nor even the "slightest link") and that countries like Germany and Russia concur that there is no link, that there is still one out there somewhere and if so, what would be your evidence to support your claim?

Beyond faulty logic, of course.

I made my claim that it has been conclusively shown based on these facts in the public record. And take careful note of the fact that DeFazio is referencing the classified information that he is privy to, not just the pablum fed to the citizens (or even the other non-classified members of Congress).

My claim has been met and supported. Kindly do likewise with your claim.

Dr Rick

It is unlikely that Hussein had anything to do with 9/11; the lack of evidence linking him to Al Queda and the known history of animosity between him and bin Laden, coupled with the failure of Western intelligence agencies to provide any credible evidence of a link makes any other conclusion improbable; not impossible, but improbable.

The link between Al Queda and 9/11 was deduced from many lines of evidence including personal associations, financial and banking records, phone conversations, and many other documents. American intelligence has been hard at work looking for such evidence linking Hussein to the attack on the WTC; the failure to find any credible evidence afterall is evidence that such a link does not exist; not proof, but evidence.

No one can prove that Hussein didn't conspire with bin Laden to attack the US, but the lack of any credible evidence is compelling in itself.

Rick

Red Expendable

I think that white people are going to continue to destroy the planet and kill people till whatever is left (people and enviroment) are reduced to nothing but a big pile of S H I T.

I offer no fuckin' proof. Nor am I doing any 'critical' thinking - I just look at the history of european's/white people - and notice a trend towards genocide/intolerance/destruction/theft, etc.

white people love it. We THRIVE ON IT. We want more. And when we've bombed the last Iraqi at of exsitence, and push the last native american into an unmarked grave, and anyone else who doesn't bow before us - we will turn on ourselves. Our children we kill each other.

It will be a fitting end to white people - in particular white americans.

RedEx

fatherphil

well red, are you saying people of color can't do genocide as well as whites? seems a bit racist of you.

Red Expendable

Nope. That's just the way history has played itself out so far.
We are the perpetrators.

Also, re: Iraq- let me say this:

The United Snakes of America wanted war with Iraq by saying weapons of mass destructions were the issue.

None were found.

The U.N. and other civivilized nations wouldn't support the UNCIVILIZED nations like Britain and The Snakes (aka U.S.A.) gonig to war ON Iraq because there was no proof.

The United Snakes wants oil - cheap and lots of it.

We want NOW DAMN IT!!

We need A REASON and we need it quick.

Then all of a sudden, Turkey is now under 'threat' from Iraq - so says the head of the Snakes, George Bush.

Now of course no one believes BUSH when he says that Turkey is threatened by Iraq. Iraq has pretty much be bombed into submission during the Gulf War. And along with the sanctions, well, you know, that kind of puts a damper on a country, economically, you know.

So anyway, BUSH is pissed. Cuz, none of his friends want to go to war with him. So BUSH says, 'FUCK IT!' - We are going in anyway.

And CREATE a new reason - liberation of the Iraqi people.

So - after liberating thousands of Iraqi people of their lives/families during the Gulf War and through economic sanctions, we decide to 'finish the job' - through this latest deed -


Liberation by way of IMPERIALISM.


So, we liberate them - by killing them.

And of course, the majority of Americans support this liberation because, it brings us more wealth. We love it.

We get cheap oil.

The Iraqi people are liberated from their lives. And their oil.

Truly this is a LIBERATING EXPERIENCE!

I mean, heck there is all kinds of liberation going on.

If the non-white people of the world were to exact a revenge upon the white people of the world - all white people would be gone, and there would still be a debt to be repayed!!!!

RedEx

Gurdur

Correct.
*sigh*
You'ld think we had enough problems, RE, without this kind of extremely silly rhetoric.

FYI, RE, colour of skin has no bearing on morality or aggressiveness at all.
And you've added zero of worth to the discussion.