Koyaanisqatsi

FINALLY something at least partially substantiated regarding your claims! And it only took you five pages of posting.

Now we have something to work with, scant though it may be, so thank you at long last for providing the most basic requirements of making such claims.

Ok. So what was your methodology? What parameters did you set on the information coming in and what tests were employed to determine whether or not this was merely a construction (figment) of your own imagination?

See how simple this is?

Ok. Still not sure how you were able to determine that this wasn't just a construction of your own imagination. How did you rule out the possibility of some form of multiple personality disorder or schizophrenia? Through self diagnosis or did you have qualified psychologists on hand or on call to verify in some manner your psychiatric state, either before or after these first "transmissions?"

So far the information you have provided still points to a sort of, "I heard 'messages' allegedly beamed to my brain from 'higher realms' and then accepted what I heard in order to see what would happen next," without any kind of independent oversight. Was that true?

Remember the movie "Altered States?" That was actually based on real-life experiences and subsequent documentation of those experiences by a real-life scientist (whose name escapes me now), and it included detailed descriptions of the hallucinations and the effects of the sensory deprivation tank on those hallucinations and a chemical analysis of the psychotropics involved, ete., etc.. (though, of course the majority of the film--especially the ending and the "regression theme"--was fictionalized). The point is, it wasn't just some guy tripping on acid in a room somewhere and hearing voices.

Did you start a journal, for example, that chronicled everything you felt would be pertinent to the experiences you were having? Did you enlist the help and independent supervision of some sort of expert in the field, or was it merely you and your own experiences, etc.?

See what I'm getting at now? What was your methodology?

Well, again, how did you determine that you were actually seeing the pattern of a sofa "through" your friend (and why did you put "through" in quotes); i.e., how did you dismiss hallucination as a result of any number of possible variants, from such things as sleep deprivation to chemical imbalance in your brain? Did you do anything to independently verify or at least check to rationally dismiss such possible (and, more importantly, probable) explanations for any of these events?

How many of these kinds of events did you experience and in what state of mind did you experience them? Only during your meditative state? On a daily basis? Every Tuesday at 5? Did your colleagues (assuming that they are actually individual humans, which I'm still not clear on) experience the same kinds of "invisible made visible" or was it just you? What?

Are you getting it now? The raw, unfiltered data?

I don't know, since I would have no way of verifying whether or not someone was actually being lifted out of their seat "against their will." How did you and how did you rule out either fakery or some sort of suggestive state (such as an hypnotic, alpha state) as a result of the meditative state the subject may have been in. Or are you referring to an experience that you had and if so, how did you rule out such possible/probable explanations?

Because you somehow just knew?

Not "down to the date," but yes, I have, both by a psychic friend of a friend and by an astrologer friend of a friend (as well as more mundade experiences). The experiences were remarkable in both instances and uncannily accurate, but it is still difficult for me to discern how much of it was "reading the future" and how much was merely the result of self-fulfilling prophecy; i.e., that the suggestion was planted that in the future something would "happen" to me and then lo and behold, I subconsciously fulfilled that prophecy in various ways"that I could not possibly know," as you say.

I've event "met" and "spoken" with my "spirit guide" through that psychic and while I certainly feel the experience and the "information" imparted was personally confirmable (i.e., that it all "rang true" if you will), that's a far cry from it being independently verified in any manner to justify my going around declaring that my experience represented "the truth."

Indeed, my "spirit guide" informed me through this particular medium that my existence in this "3D world" was a fundamentally different quality than what you are presenting as "fact," so why or how would I have any ability to assent to your version of "reality" based on your alleged psychic experiences over my own alleged psychic experiences?

My spirit guide and my experiences with a psychic were just "wrong" and yours were just "right?"

In other words, they were all remarkable experiences, but not exactly confirmable experiences in the manner we are referring to here.

Ok, again, quantify them with the raw data and not just your interpretation of your experience.

Here, I'll make it easy. Describe five of the most compelling experiences as objectively as possible, without putting any personally interpreted "spin" on them.

I'll start you off: On October 20, 2002, at ten in the morning, I was not in a special meditative state and "A" event occurred... Or, on October 20, 2002, at ten in the morning, I was in a special meditative state and "A" event occurred...etc.

See how simple it is?

And also, apparently, an invasive intelligence, capable of both physically manipulating either you or someone you witnessed "being forced out of" their chair "against their will" and writing a phrase on a piece of paper as well capable of somehow reconfiguring your optical processing to allow you to see through matter selectively enough that only the matter of a person you presumably knew was effected.

Those are two remarkable examples of direct physical and/or mental manipulations of yourself and, presumably, another human being from some sort of beings (plural) that you claim exist in a "higher" realm; in the fifth dimension.

So, am I to infer from this that it was you who was forced against your own will to get up and write? That's vastly different from watching somebody else effected in such a way, yes?

Well, now we have the cart before the horse. Let me see if I have the chronology correct, then.

You received some sort of message in your mind during a state of meditation, presumably describing to you who was sending you this message (perhaps over several days, weeks, months?) This message, again presumably, based on your posts, asked you whether or not it was permissable to somehow use your physical "3D" body to perform certain externalized examples in order to "prove" to you, at least, that what you were experiencing was not merely something from your own imagination or the result of some sort of mentally "unbalanced" state, shall we say?

Is that close so far?

"Us" being yourself and your colleagues, or are you referring to an amalgam you've chosen as a way to refer to your "little" self (the 3D self) and your "higher" self (presumably your 5D self)?

In other words, these experiences of being physically manipulated initially "against your will" lead you to conclude that "something" was in fact physically manipulating you; so you then assented to being manipulated from that point forward in accordance with your own "free will?"

Ok. Poetic, but largely useless ancillary commentary aside, are you claiming that one's "true" self is not also the "little" self in some manner? That it is your "higher" self that is the "true" self, discounting the "little" self in some manner, simply because it is based within the "3D world?"

Why would that be? You seem to refer to both your "higher" and "little" self as an amalgam. Wouldn't that be one's "true" self; an amalgam of the higher and the little selves?

Let us keep to the proper terminology. Your own experiences which you have personally elected to accept as sufficient evidence to prove to you that what you expienced was externally confirmed. I.e., that it wasn't just a product of your own imagination.

Yes, well, we'll have to come back to that in a minute.

Well, again, shall we stop with the unnecessary descriptive hyperbole, because that's one of the ways in which your claims got into trouble here in the first place. Let's just leave it at, you experienced physical manipulation in accordance with "messages" being somehow "beamed" directly into your brain by what you now believe to be fifth dimensional entities of some as yet undetermined nature and these experiences were sufficient enough for you to assent to this belief. Fair enough?

Ok. A lot of claims, but at least this is the first of some sort of "rational" breakdown as to your experiences and why you feel those experiences were "real" enough for you to assent to their external existence, instead of simply seeking psychiatric or psychological treatment,. for example.

Irrelevant, since we have yet to qualify and quantify (as well as independently verify) your claims. The "way of the universe," for example is verifiably three dimensional (actually four dimensional, but we can get into that later) so far as the term "way" has any relevance beyond mere poetry. As I mentioned before, the universe is not an entity with a "will;" it is merely the name we give to describe the totality of our physical surroundings.

So your claim that we are somehow "180 degrees out, opposite to the way of the universe" is, as it stands, nonsensical, so perhaps you could explain what you mean by the "way" of the universe?

Then we can get back into the contradictory elements of being forced "against your will" and then assenting in accordance with your will, as well as the points I made previously regarding why it is that only you are capable of being externally manipulated in this manner, yes?

So, good. Some progress in a form of reasoned breakdown of, at least, your experiences and why you came to believe those experiences were "real," though still no evidence of any kind of independent verification methodology, or, indeed, any information on how you went about determining that this wasn't merely the same kinds of experiences described by many individuals over the years with psychological disorders.

But, back to this "way," first and foremost, just so we can continue to sift through your irrelevant hyperbole and find anything at all of some sort of substance. What do you mean by the "way" of the universe and how does simply existing as we all do in a "3D" universe necessarily mean that we are not fulfilling some sort of "contract" with a non-entity (the universe) incapable of issuing contracts of any kind?

malai5

Dear Koyaanisqatsi.

Sorry for the delay.

When the 3 of us met, we each knew we had ''gifts'', and had our own proofs, of sorts. But, the validations of ourselves as individuals was personal observation and anectdotal. I, had been working as a clairvoyant for a number of years and knew that what I possessed was real.

When we got together, there was a chance to ''double blind'' ourselves, to finally prove and validate if what we were ''tapping '' into was consistant and varifiable.
This we did for about a year, and still do to this day to cross check the information we are getting.

This is how the ''double blind'' check works with us.
One of us receives a piece of information, and I, just for examples sake, without seeing the ''information'' have to connect and then say what I get. This, when it is done in this way, has never failed to produce the same information. We have done this with distance involved, where we are not face to face and get the same results.
This is how we started out, the 3 of us and knew we were in touch with the same source. This is how we proved and still prove our abilities and the material we get.

The information we have sourced is not just the universal material we post, but all areas of the 3D human activity spectrum, both personal and world events, people and things.

The results are all documented with times and dates and provide a fascinating ''history'' of our work and growth as the ''3''.
In the not too distant future, we intend to publish several books on the many subjects we have compiled information on, including our personal journey from ''little'' selves, to ''bigger''/higher selves.

We are very different people in nearly every aspect, from when we started this journey, and it has not been easy. We, however, would not want our ''old'' selves and ''old'' lives back. In fact, we could never go back, we would not know how.

We hope this is a bit more in the line of what you are seeking.

Cheers.

Malai5.

Koyaanisqatsi

Well, it helps some, but I'm still a bit unclear... You said, "When the 3 of us met." Do you mean you met two other people who were also "clairvoyants"?

malai5

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi
[B]Well, it helps some, but I'm still a bit unclear... You said, "When the 3 of us met." Do you mean you met two other people who were also "clairvoyants"?

Dear Koyaanisqatsi.

Yes that is true, but they did not see themselves as that.
Their lives up to that point, were, as they saw it, very normal. They were not ''afflicted'', with the ''pink bubble'' new age syndrome, but had had genuine ''experiences'' that they were seeking an answer for. Our meeting, for all of us was very fortuitous and completely out of the ''blue''.

Cheers.

Malai5.

malai5

Dear Koyaanisqatsi.

We would like to set a few more things straight.
You said, ''the universe is not an entity with a will''.
The universe or in reality the multi-verse is the totality of all matter and energy in the Grand Order of Design. The whole shebang is a living energetic ''entity'' which has a ''will'' and an agenda and that is to evolve/expand. Every minute part is a part of this agenda and as such is part of the ''will'' all with the one agenda.

Free will is subjective as it is given as a band of possibilities contained in your ''contract'' for your life, any life. These possibilities are your range related to all people and opportunities you can possibly have in a life. This is set out in your contract, it is not random, there are limits. How those possibilities are realised depends upon cause and effect, your choices.

Part of our contracts, the 3 of us, because of the specific nature of our purpose and path in this life was the aparent suspension or limiting of our free will. On another level we agreed to this, as all do when contracting a life.
When we say, ''against our will'', it is the ''little self'' will we are speaking about. The overiding of our ''little self'' sense of ''control''.
When one understands how the ''selves'' work, you understand who really ''drives the bus''. The extreem example we were given was to show us, in a conscious fashion what happens to all beings unconsciously.

Why us? Well again it is to do with our specific role in this life. Part of this role is to speak for those who cannot speak for themselves, cannot speak their truth for fear of being judged.
A graphic example of what it is like to not be able to speak we experienced in the form of two of us, me included, being unable to speak for over an hour. We could think of what we wanted to say, but there was no connection with the physical to make it happen. Very strange, we could not begin to describe it. Our voices came back a bit at a time over a period of about a half hour. We have never had it happen since. Again, just a demonstration of which ''self'' controls you.

As to your alluding to ''psychological disorders'', our experiences have been of short duration and purposeful in their intent. Strictly for demonstration purposes only, nothing lasting. That's the real control of the True self.
So free will, only as much as you need to do what you need to do to learn the lessons in your life.

Cheers.

Malai5.

dublczek

malai5, are you familiar with Jane Roberts and the Seth Material? This sounds a lot like it.

malai5

Dear dublczek.

No, we are not familiar with the material.
We will do some research and see what it is all about.

Cheers.

malai5.

John Page

Pray tell, who drives the bus?

malai5

Dear John Page.

In simple terms, your True Self through your Higher Self drives the ''bus'' which is you, and all your ''parallels''.

You are intrinsically connected to your Higher and True selves.
You would not exist otherwise.
Your True Self placed ''you'' in this world and you have a ''contractual'' agreement with it.

To successfully complete your ''contract'', you will consciously or not heed the intuitive ''guidence'' your Higher Self sends to you as to your contractual ''best possible outcome life''.

You can not ''listen'' to this guidence and instead be lead by others and your ''wants'' which will tend to take you from your contractual ''path''.
All that you ''need'', for your life you will be given the opportunity to access, if you listen to what is inside of you and not what is without you.
If you do this, the ''you'' that knows best, will be driving the ''bus''.

Your ''free will'' allows you the choice to be ''successful'' in the completion of your ''contract'' or not.

''Best possible outcome life'' gives you ''soul'' growth, growth of the True Self, any other path does not.

So, the mesage is, let the ''you'' that really knows, take the ''wheel'', for it KNOWS better than your ''little'' self, how to drive the ''bus''.

Cheers.

Malai5.

John Page

Why three - isn't that just Freidian echoes of the Holy Trinity.

How about Five Selves? Perhaps this would more spuriously correspond with string theory.

Again, please provide evidence that your concept of selves is not delusionary. (I don't mind which one of you replies).

Cheers, John