GeoTheo

I believe in the "nature" the naturalists believe is the sum total of all there is. But I also believe in more than that.

Autonemesis

It seems inevitable that a theist must descend into solipsism to maintain rationality in the face of reality.

GeoTheo seems to be there already with his "bricks in the mind creating reality" viewpoint.

I'll give you one thing though, at least you get to the heart of the matter: rejecting solipsism seems to involve a leap of faith that the world exists independent of the "bricks in my mind."

Why theists can't make this leap is beyond me.

Mageth

I believe in the "nature" the naturalists believe is the sum total of all there is. But I also believe in more than that.

Understood.

However, you don't believe everything a metaphysical naturalist believes, because a metaphysical naturalists believes there is no more, which you don't believe.

Trivial perhaps...

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

K

Geo Theo:

Do you then believe in every mythical creature? If not, aren't you just limited in what you can experience? A person believing in astrology would then have an even more complete language than you. That is unless you believe in astrology. And just look at all the gods your missiong without Hinduism.

If you can toss out these other beliefs because of the lack of evidence, why is it so tough to understand why we can toss out the Christian god?

GeoTheo

I find myself in total agreement with this paragraph:
"Socially, we seek an atmosophere of intellectual freedom and tolerance, for the promotion of knowledge and understanding through the avid
pursuit of philosophy and the scientific enterprise. We believe all people should be allowed, even encouraged, to hear all sides of every
religious claim and choose for themselves, using evidence and reason rather than force, intimidation, deception, or any other underhanded
tactic. Therefore, we believe governments must be entirely neutral, favoring none in this quest. This is called "separation of church and state,"
to which we devote an entire section of our library. And though we have convictions and beliefs of our own, and ought to be free to defend
and promote them, our commitment to tolerance means we do not hold anyone else to a different standard: all should have that same freedom.
This means that while we debate, even fiercely, in matters of philosophy, we should all cooperate in matters of peace and prosperity, tolerating
each other's presence in the same free society. It is our dream that even people of different faiths, including nontheists, befriend each other
and work together toward a better society of universal happiness, pursuing reason, science, and truth."

I think the intellectual atmosphere described in this paragraph is fertile ground for true belief in God.

Autonemesis

And I don't. Next!

Demigawd

<strong>Why theists can't make this leap is beyond me.</strong>

It's quite simple, really. To make that leap is to give up the "I'm special" dream that theists cling to so dearly. To have a god that cares whether or not you grovel for salvation or march defiantly into hell makes an individual feel significant, rather than just another animal in the animal kingdom.

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: Demigawd ]</p>

GeoTheo

I would look at the context.
What signifigance do these adherents give these beings?
If it was the same signifigance I give to my God, I would conclude it is the same one, but only with a different name.
I can not say that of the IPU. The IPU has no signifigance in anyones life.
I think God exists partly through our worship of Him. If you began to truly worship the IPU eventually we would be worshipping the same God together.
The way we would know we were worshipping the same God would be through our communication together.
We would have communication to ourselves, to each other and to God. They would all match up.
This communication would be based on love. I may be able to offer some additional insights as to the true nature of the IPU (That actually it is not pink nor a Unicorn) If we found We were in agreement on this and that the IPU worshipper found that their worship had become more powerful, as a result of more accurate info, than we would know that all along we were worshipping the same God only I had some more revelation on the matter.

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: GeoTheo ]</p>

GeoTheo

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: GeoTheo ]</p>

ashibaka

Or maybe it's because if we don't have a reason to believe in something, we won't believe it?

To say "It would be nice if there was no God, therefore there is no God" would be lying to yourself. A more logical sequence would go "I don't see a God, and I don't hear a God, and I don't feel a God, and I don't smell a God, so to me it seems like there is no God."