Fr.Andrew

(Fr Andrew): Hello, SLUGfly, and thanks for a thoughtful post. And welcome.
I agree with most of what you say except the above. If we (are able to) examine a taboo and find no rational basis for it, then I think we should caste it aside.

I agree wholeheartedly that the social repurcussions for having violated a taboo often do more emotional damage than the act itself.

Ronin

I was not being cryptic in the least and, quite frankly, am still uncertain as to why it has even become an issue that you have felt the need to continue to address while avoiding other, more substantive, issues.

Merely a semantic disagreement, Fr.Andrew, your OP addressed opportunistic pedophiles and not, specifically, 'adults'.

I hope you are now clear on the issue of your OP and my offering.

I understand that we disagree that my assertion is:

a) not to your liking

but, that it does, in fact:

b) address your OP directly.

and:

c) you decline to address the questions I have posed to you in order to "generate discussion on the issue", including your own personal thresholds regarding self-destructive and/or abusive behavior, despite asking for 'time to sort them out'.

Ronin

This is the issue which I have addressed regarding the inability of the child providing informed consent.

I will provide my view once again for clarity:

Children do not have the same capacity to make organized and formative decisions as adults and therefore, sexual contact is a violation of the child's personal liberty and is nonconsensual.

So, regardless of opportunistic pedophiles, the child's lack of ability to make organized and formative decisions damages the child's personal liberty...and, I'll add, may cause serious mental illness stemming from a lack of self-esteem/respect and sovereignty.

This is the rational basis for the taboo that SLUGfly has addressed in the quote I provided above and confirms for me that Fr.Andrew recognizes this as a valid additional factor addressing the OP.

Do you, Fr.Andrew, consider this 'taboo within the taboo' as having a rational basis?

Ronin

I do not believe I have been these thing that you accuse me of, Fr.Andrew.

I have apologized once for any offending misconception I may have generated in you...and subsequently been told that I should not apologize for it.

There does not seem to be any further remedy for me other than to emphasize that I am sincerely pursuing the topic with you.

Questioning your personal feelings with respect to bullying and self-destructive behavior among children may bring us closer to a mutual understanding as to the nature of taboos and why all humans have them.

The AntiChris

Nice post SLUGfly!

Your thoughts are a breath of fresh air in a thread that's sadly been dominated by personal vendettas.

Chris

yguy

Were I James Dobson or Jerry Falwell, I'd be just as punched as please that someone with your credibility was trying to destroy mine.

JamesKrieger

My girlfriend was having regular sexual relations at 14. She did so consensually, with others the same age. She has no adult hang-ups about sex and sexual relations. She enjoys sex and has a better libido than me.



Probably the self-esteem issues.



Neither one may be causational...if a relationship even exists in the first place, it might be purely correlational.

yguy

Uh huh. Everything was fine with the Aztecs too, because it was always someone else's kid that got its heart ripped out.

Everything was fine with the Eloi in Wells' novel because they spent the whole day playing and screwing. It was always someone else who got taken by the Morelocks in the night.

All we have to do to make everything fine, apparently, is make every new deviancy a part of the culture. All we have to do to eradicate evil is call it good. Problem solved.

Fr.Andrew

(Fr Andrew): Because I don't understand you when you go out of your way to be snide and cute. Your online manner gets in the way of communication. With me.
I asked for time to consider my own thresholds so far as bullying and self-destructive behavior are concerned, and you responded with "I'm not your keeper." What kind of nonsense is that? Why didn't you say, "Sure, no problem."?

(Fr Andrew): A pedophile is an adult by definition. I made it plain in my OP that, just like pregnancy and disease, I was taking intergenerational sex off the table. Stop fooling around.

(Fr Andrew): No...not yet.


(Fr Andrew): No..we agree on that, I think. And it's not just that I don't like it...it's that I think it may be inaccurate. I think you're just regurgitating conventional wisdom--and conventional wisdom many times turns out to have holes all through it.

(Fr Andrew): No...I'm afraid you've yet to demonstrate that.

(Fr Andrew): I've about sorted them out and am pretty much ready to go. Now it's up to you to explain why grilling me about my personal thresholds with respect to bullying and self-destructive behaviour is relevant to my OP...and we're all set.

(Fr Andrew): There, now! Was that so hard?
Had you started out this way, we may have avoided a lot of unnecessary back and forth. But you didn't--you asked:
"What brings you to the conclusion that shoving sharp objects into various bodily orifices would actually be self-destructive, if you were monitoring the five year old making such an exploration?"
What absolute foolishness! How could it not be self-destructive for a five-year-old to shove sharp objects into bodily orifices?
This is an example of what I was talking about, ~ronin.
Just go for the point. Don't strain so hard to wrap it in mystery.

As I can't believe that you don't already understand the self-destruction in shoving sharp objects into bodily orifices, I'll ignore that and address bullying.
I think that for behaviour to be "bullying", there must be an intent to be cruel toward someone. Were I monitoring children and observed what I perceived as intentionaly cruelty, I would step in. And I'd keep a close eye on the bully from then on.

Fr.Andrew

(Fr Andrew): If you're asking whether or not I think that taboos against sex via rape, deception or the exercise of power are legitimate...I do.
If you're asking something else, please reword your question.