Freethought & Rationalism Archive

beyelzu · 02-04-2003, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by moon
Sure. How about North/South Korea from the years 1952-1980? This is the only good comparison in your list, since, for one thing, you can't compare a city to a country where 1/4 of the population of the world resides. Also, East Germany is a special case. It had Stalinism imposed on it from above, and existed basically as a buffer from the imperialists who were constantly attacking the Soviet Union.

I have some other comparisons for you, though. How about these?

Cuba vs. Guatemala
Russia vs. Brazil

I further note that you are unable to defend your assertion that the proletariat of socialist countries have "cried out" for the "free" market.

how about n korea and s korea at present. one has a nation of starving people and the other doesnt.

moon, you ever live in a communist country, please respond to my post, I know people who have and they will be quite happy to tell you how much it sucked.

Moon, the berlin wall was built because east germans were fleeing to west berlin, you do realize this dont you?

actually hong kong did much better than china, which is kind of amusing since china is the country "where 1/4 of the population of the world resides." and you most certainly can compare standards of living.

also you seem to be misunderstanding the point, the examples originally offered were done so because the climate, culutral and genetic makeup of the peoples and lands involved were virtually identical.

moon · 02-04-2003, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beyelzu
Its less that mexico sucks so bad as it is the us is the most prosperous nation on earth.

No, it's because Mexico sucks so bad. They would be just as happy to go to Sweden, but since Sweden is further away, they settle for the U.S. Especially since NAFTA, working conditions in Mexico have been thrown back to what they were at the dawn of the industrial revolution. The situation is truly appalling in capitalist Mexico. Note that capitalist Mexico is under total control of U.S. imperialism, which could very easily change virtually any law or policy in Mexico it likes.

That fence down there, it's not there to keep Mexicans out of the U.S., it's to keep them in Mexico.

beyelzu · 02-04-2003, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Me and Me
South Korea was an oppressive millitary dictatorship until 1988.

north korea was an oppressive military dictatorship until... oh wait it still is.

beyelzu · 02-04-2003, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by moon
No, it's because Mexico sucks so bad. They would be just as happy to go to Sweden, but since Sweden is further away, they settle for the U.S. Especially since NAFTA, working conditions in Mexico have been thrown back to what they were at the dawn of the industrial revolution. The situation is truly appalling in capitalist Mexico. Note that capitalist Mexico is under total control of U.S. imperialism, which could very easily change virtually any law or policy in Mexico it likes.

That fence down there, it's not there to keep Mexicans out of the U.S., it's to keep them in Mexico.

moon, sweden is a capitalistic country too.

just tell me what communist country you think the mexicans would like to go to

David M. Payne · 02-04-2003, 12:44 AM

Now where were we? Oh yes, the heading of this thread. Here it is: Why does communism always fail?

Quote:

Originally posted by hal9000
There is no real communist nation around now. N. Korea is really a monarchy with Kim Jong as the king. In Cuba you have a tottering regime that is based more on the cult of personality of Castro, and he runs a dictatorial system, not the workers paradise of communism. And what has passed for the big show case communist nations in the past, Russia and China appear to be on the road to capitalism. If it is such a good idea, why can't it ever succeed? As there are some dedicated leftists here, perhaps they can tell us why communism is such a dismal failure in practice.

You can run, but you can't hide on a thread.

David

"God, Marx, and religion, the oldest scam(s) in history, and they still suck them in today. So free your mind, and your body will follow!

Me and Me · 02-04-2003, 12:55 AM

I will tell you this right now, I am definately not moon. That is the truth.

Just becasue people are poor doesn't mean that they are dumb.
M Payne here sounds like he is trying to imply that the amount of money one has determines intelect. How bourgeois of him.

beyelzu · 02-04-2003, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Me and Me
I will tell you this right now, I am definately not moon. That is the truth.

Just becasue people are poor doesn't mean that they are dumb.
M Payne here sounds like he is trying to imply that the amount of money one has determines intelect. How bourgeois of him.

I really dont see anyone arguing this point. Who said poor people are stupid?

I may have said communism is stupid, but poor people, why would they be stupid?

foolish for voting for communism, yes

stupid, no.

David M. Payne · 02-04-2003, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Me and Me
I will tell you this right now, I am definately not moon. That is the truth.

Just becasue people are poor doesn't mean that they are dumb.
M Payne here sounds like he is trying to imply that the amount of money one has determines intelect. How bourgeois of him.

So I've been demoted to M Payne, just like hal9000 was demoted to hal90 by J.M/M&M. Ouch!
I never said that poor people are dumb J.M/M&M, so that is a straw man argument.
On another note, gee, you make the same kind of spelling errors that J.M made. Can't spell intellect but you can spell bourgeois. How about that!

I see I need to post this below here too!

Quote:

Originally posted by Me and Me
So Moon is J.M?

Just between you and me J.M/M&M, I'm moon, and your not!

Or maybe not, that's the fun thing about the Internet, trying to figure out who is who around here.

By the way, I see you got the punctuation right on J.M, nice touch!

David

"God, Marx, and religion, the oldest scam(s) in history, and they still suck them in today. So free your mind, and your body will follow!

David M. Payne · 02-04-2003, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Me and Me
South Korea was an oppressive millitary dictatorship until 1988.

Quote:

Originally posted by Beyelzu
north korea was an oppressive military dictatorship until... oh wait it still is.

Quote:

Originally posted by Beyelzu
moon, Sweden is a capitalistic country too.

Just tell me what communist country you think the Mexicans would like to go to

Ha ha, good points B. Good luck getting a reply.

Well hal, I see we have so few posters on the left here, what's up with that? RED DAVE, August spies and the rest, you have no answers to the OP of this thread? I sure understand that! Catch you later guys.

David

"God, Marx, and religion, the oldest scam(s) in history, and they still suck them in today. So free your mind, and your body will follow!

David M. Payne · 02-04-2003, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Celsus
That's only because I kept clicking "refresh" every two minutes.

Just saw this. Well Celsus stop it!

On a more serious note, I liked your posts on the other thread, well said, and a good Russian history mini-lesson. But really this site is the Secular Web, the main focus of which is discussing various religious subjects and themes, usually over and over, with different ideas sometimes woven into them. It's cool, and the lurkers get exposed to stuff they might not see on an old thread. And every now and then someone comes up with a new gem worth holding onto, like your post on that other thread.

David

"God, Marx, and religion, the oldest scam(s) in history, and they still suck them in today. So free your mind, and your body will follow!

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02-04-2003, 12:55 AM	#86
Me and Me Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: California Posts: 600	I will tell you this right now, I am definately not moon. That is the truth. Just becasue people are poor doesn't mean that they are dumb. M Payne here sounds like he is trying to imply that the amount of money one has determines intelect. How bourgeois of him.

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