Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lcb · 08-09-2002, 08:38 PM

ok, this one. the ability to love freely requires free will. True free will, not engineered will, requires that humans be allowed to let that free will run its course (up to a point determined by God), this is a type of test to prepare people for eternity(an eternity in which heaven can exist and in which people can still have enough free will to understand love, but whose perfected spirits refrain from rebelling against God, thus allowing heaven to be a place of love).Eternity is so long, and heaven so wonderful that any suffering on earth is "amortized" into oblivion by the immensity of eternity. short term pain of labor vs. lifetime of joy from the child born, etc etc.

Philosoft · 08-09-2002, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lcb:
ok, this one. the ability to love freely requires free will. True free will, not engineered will, requires that humans be allowed to let that free will run its course (up to a point determined by God), this is a type of test to prepare people for eternity(an eternity in which heaven can exist and in which people can still have enough free will to understand love, but whose perfected spirits refrain from rebelling against God, thus allowing heaven to be a place of love).Eternity is so long, and heaven so wonderful that any suffering on earth is "amortized" into oblivion by the immensity of eternity. short term pain of labor vs. lifetime of joy from the child born, etc etc.

Rarely have I read something less coherent.

*channels Mad Kally*

MOM?

Thomas Metcalf · 08-09-2002, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lcb:
ok, this one. the ability to love freely requires free will. True free will, not engineered will, requires that humans be allowed to let that free will run its course (up to a point determined by God), this is a type of test to prepare people for eternity(an eternity in which heaven can exist and in which people can still have enough free will to understand love, but whose perfected spirits refrain from rebelling against God, thus allowing heaven to be a place of love).Eternity is so long, and heaven so wonderful that any suffering on earth is "amortized" into oblivion by the immensity of eternity. short term pain of labor vs. lifetime of joy from the child born, etc etc.

God is taken to be morally perfect. Therefore, it is impossible to conceive of a morally better being. Yet, I can conceive of a being who eliminates all gratuitous evil, not just most of it. This being would be slightly morally better.

lcb · 08-09-2002, 08:59 PM

ask toto, toto understands this. free will/evil and what some people do to feed the hungry, heal the sick, and comfort the oppressed and what some people do little or nothing about.except type about it.keyboard kompassion.

lcb · 08-09-2002, 09:07 PM

good point thomas, but play the chess game out further. medical student A graduates and dedicates his life to healing inner city children in poverty(in the U.S.-for those who think overseas missionaries are conspirators of some kind)...medical student B, goes to Beverly Hills to do plastic surgery and dedicates his life to getting rich and spending the money on himself. is one student morally superior to the other?

randomsyllable · 08-09-2002, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lcb:
good point thomas, but play the chess game out further. medical student A graduates and dedicates his life to healing inner city children in poverty(in the U.S.-for those who think overseas missionaries are conspirators of some kind)...medical student B, goes to Beverly Hills to do plastic surgery and dedicates his life to getting rich and spending the money on himself. is one student morally superior to the other?

How does that relate at all to what Thomas said?

lcb · 08-09-2002, 09:17 PM

you really have to think it through very carefully to figure it out. in the context of free will plus eternity plus a test to prepare people for eternity.

Kantian · 08-09-2002, 10:56 PM

Quote:

lcb: ok, this one. the ability to love freely requires free will. True free will, not engineered will, requires that humans be allowed to let that free will run its course (up to a point determined by God), this is a type of test to prepare people for eternity(an eternity in which heaven can exist and in which people can still have enough free will to understand love, but whose perfected spirits refrain from rebelling against God, thus allowing heaven to be a place of love).Eternity is so long, and heaven so wonderful that any suffering on earth is "amortized" into oblivion by the immensity of eternity. short term pain of labor vs. lifetime of joy from the child born, etc etc.

The Disneyland defense trumps this contemporary version of the eschatological argument. Hopefully you have been following this thread before posting your two cents.

Besides rehashing the carcasses of refuted defenses, do you have anything to contribute to that counter-rebuttal?

[ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: Immanuel Kant ]

Kantian · 08-09-2002, 10:59 PM

Quote:

lcb:good point thomas, but play the chess game out further. medical student A graduates and dedicates his life to healing inner city children in poverty(in the U.S.-for those who think overseas missionaries are conspirators of some kind)...medical student B, goes to Beverly Hills to do plastic surgery and dedicates his life to getting rich and spending the money on himself. is one student morally superior to the other?

Depends on who is doing the judging, since morality is contingent upon the beholder. Were it up to me, i'd ignore that obvious ploy for altruism (despite my namesake, deontological ethics are unfeasible) and go for the doctor who invented a new medicine or a technique that will help advance health.

Thomas Metcalf · 08-09-2002, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lcb:
good point thomas, but play the chess game out further. medical student A graduates and dedicates his life to healing inner city children in poverty(in the U.S.-for those who think overseas missionaries are conspirators of some kind)...medical student B, goes to Beverly Hills to do plastic surgery and dedicates his life to getting rich and spending the money on himself. is one student morally superior to the other?

Yes. The former is morally superior. What does this have to do with what I wrote?

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08-09-2002, 08:38 PM	#91
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	ok, this one. the ability to love freely requires free will. True free will, not engineered will, requires that humans be allowed to let that free will run its course (up to a point determined by God), this is a type of test to prepare people for eternity(an eternity in which heaven can exist and in which people can still have enough free will to understand love, but whose perfected spirits refrain from rebelling against God, thus allowing heaven to be a place of love).Eternity is so long, and heaven so wonderful that any suffering on earth is "amortized" into oblivion by the immensity of eternity. short term pain of labor vs. lifetime of joy from the child born, etc etc.

08-09-2002, 08:59 PM	#94
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	ask toto, toto understands this. free will/evil and what some people do to feed the hungry, heal the sick, and comfort the oppressed and what some people do little or nothing about.except type about it.keyboard kompassion.

08-09-2002, 09:07 PM	#95
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	good point thomas, but play the chess game out further. medical student A graduates and dedicates his life to healing inner city children in poverty(in the U.S.-for those who think overseas missionaries are conspirators of some kind)...medical student B, goes to Beverly Hills to do plastic surgery and dedicates his life to getting rich and spending the money on himself. is one student morally superior to the other?

08-09-2002, 09:17 PM	#97
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	you really have to think it through very carefully to figure it out. in the context of free will plus eternity plus a test to prepare people for eternity.

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