Freethought & Rationalism Archive

diana · 12-18-2002, 07:21 PM

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In other words, man made a god who was just like a man. Volatile, unstable, violent, capricious, jealous, insecure, loving, and hateful just like us.

Sounds like Robert A. Heinlein. From Time Enough For Love:

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Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.

d

diana · 12-19-2002, 04:56 AM

devnet,

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Of course there are secondary causes. Imagine you go to your mom's and there is a kettle of water happily boiling on the stove. Somebody says to you: Why is the water boiling? You say: "Why, because here is a source of heat underneath, which causes an agitation of the molecules of water, which keeps moving faster and faster till the internal energy, manifested as pressure, overcomes the atmospheric pressure, and the water breaks to a boil."

Your mom comes into the kitchen, hears this explanation, and says: "Well, the water is boiling because I am going to make tea."

...

Still, I contend for an Argument from Nonsystematic Fate to show how such secondary intelligent causation does not exist.

I've been thinking about your post, devnet. Doesn't the Argument From Nonsystematic Fate assume a benevolent and omniscient being and that it protects/punishes us prior to death?

From your essay:

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if there is indeed an external sovereign over the fates of all creatures, there should be a discernible pattern in fate. The fact that there is no such discernible pattern means there is no such external sovereign.

But Xns claim what happens to us on earth is incidental (based on free will) or a "test of God," but our real fate is what happens to us after death, which is (by definition) completely fair and systematic.

I'd like to see you treat this counter-argument in your essay.

d

abe smith · 12-19-2002, 05:13 AM

My standard insertion is "(Your) "god" is a human fiction." and that's the way I expect to continuue to read it. Abe

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12-19-2002, 05:13 AM	#13
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	My standard insertion is "(Your) "god" is a human fiction." and that's the way I expect to continuue to read it. Abe

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