Ted Hoffman

Datheron
Datheron, is there evidence that suggests that time is specifically, an exclusive property of our universe, given we dont even know whether other universes exist?

Ted Hoffman

Amos
Hi, so we meet again. Great
So if I prove that God does not exist, I shall have proved that the universe does not exist?
Oh please Amos Ok, so now we dont exist, lets be serious.
[quote...Time does not exist but is just a measure of duration for you to find existence.
[/quote]Duration is another word for time, I thought U were above circular meanings. Where is the evidence for this? And just how do you suggest we step outside the flux of change? Arent we already part of this stream of consciousness? if we arent, how do we get to be part of it? No, dont tell me: we become catholics - right?

How do you know that to transcend time is to transcend human understanding? Is human understanding limited by time or by information?

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: jaliet ]</p>

Ted Hoffman

xocThanks for your story/ explanation. Now you can answer the question why you think time is s property that is confined to our universe alone

Amos

Duration is another word for time, I thought U were above circular meanings.
quote:
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Time and space have no existence because they have no final cause, no formal cause, no material cause and no efficient cause. Time and space are like a void that we fill with our existence to the same extent that we occupy space and to the same extent we extrapolate time from eternity within the scope of timelessness (infinity).For example, when we are asleep we extrapolate time but are in the eternal mode of timelessness<strong>

To observe the element of time we must step outside ot eternity or step outside the flux of change (or stream of consciousness) to extract time from eternity.
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And just how do you suggest we step outside the flux of change? Arent we already part of this stream of consciousness? if we arent, how do we get to be part of it? No, dont tell me: we become catholics - right?</strong>

We don't have to step outside of this flux because we already are there. In our second nature (novum organon) we are already outside our first nature (organon) and to reunite with our first nature we must combine both our first and second nature (tertium organon). In your language this would simple mean that we are non-rational animals in our first nature, rational animals in our second nature and once again non-rational animals in our third nature with the addition of our conscious mind into the animal mind of man. We become intuitionists (seniors).<strong>

How do you know that to transcend time is to transcend human understanding? Is human understanding limited by time or by information?
[/QUOTE]</strong>

In our human nature we are temporal beings and are limited by both time and understanding. In time because we must extrapolate time from eternity (count our days) and in science from omniscience because we must learn about the local conditions of our situations to survive. In our human nature we have an ego and know only that which pertains to our ego. In our animal nature we have a soul in which we are eternal (cannot die) because only the ego is time conscious. When I say that we cannot die it is not implied that we will never cease to exist. It means that we are not outside of ourself from where we count our our days untill we die.

The question becomes: how do we step inside of this eternal flux. The answer is easy, each one must find his own way, which is not difficult at all because the ego will not survive the body and must be surrendered before or when we die. The secret is to do this at midlife and enjoy eternity during the second half of life (yang period).

Amos

Ted Hoffman

****coughs into his hand**** Amos, Amos, Amos where did you learn all this?

Draygomb

For clarity I suppose I should have said

Time is the measure of change so anything that changes is bound to time. Therefore anything that doesn't have time is Totally unchangeable.

If god can change his mind or have a thought other than the one he is currently having then god isn't totally unchangeable and is therefore bound by time and not the first cause.

Draygomb

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Draygomb ]</p>

Amos

Nifty isn't it?

Technos

It has for quite awhile been my understanding that time is simply the measurement of the movement of energy, in our case a few cycles that naturally occur. If for some reason the movement of all particles in the universe came nearly to a halt, yet all the atoms maintained their form, we would be none the wiser because our time would remain the same, from our perspective anyway. On a quantum level protons and neutrons are made of quarks, and quarks and electrons are clusters of energy held together by their own charges, and by the gravity that the movement of energy produces (the gravity being produced as explained by Einstein, theoretically). When dabbing into the absolute relativity of time, it becomes clear that time is a human system of measurement based around events that just so happen to occur systematically due to the nature of the energy and gravity involved, and as energy can neither be created nor destroyed, time is irrelevant to energy itself, but rather relevant only to those things that are composed of energy (quantum atomic particles, atoms, and those things that are composed of atoms). All this taken into consideration, time itself is subjective and far from absolute and has even been known to speed up or slow down due to sudden changes in gravity, as evidenced in numerous experiments, such experiments have lead some physicist to the theory that it may well be possible to travel forward it time, but would be quite impossible to travel back in time, even if you could travel faster than the speed of light, because all you could accomplish by doing so would be seeing a reflection of the past rather than actually being in the past, much like we see stars that have long collapsed or exploded because light travels at a specific rate. Of course to one who does not hold a passion for physics all this may seem rather unimportant as the fact that time is not absolute does not effect the system of measurement we call time.

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Technos ]</p>

Datheron

Jaliet,

&lt;shrugs&gt; I would personally say that there is no way for us to spectulate beyond this universe to any accuracy, including matters of time, space, physics, and logic. Given that we are stuck in this universe with a set of rigid rules to govern our existence, I find it hard and almost arrogant to claim that we may apply these same rules to objects outside the Universe, if even "outside the Universe" makes any sense. Above, I was merely trying to clarify Tercel's statement, not agreeing with it.