HaysooChreesto!

Excellent, clear headed post. And congratulations on your sucess here. Best of luck.

Friar Bellows

I think the French jokes in the US stem from your Anglophilia. The same goes for Australia. We love the English. We can't get enough of them. We in Australia don't deal much with the French or the Irish, yet we spend an inordinate amount of time making jokes about them. It would make sense if most of our jokes were about Kiwis, or if most of your jokes were about Canucks, but Anglo dominance and/or influence in our respective cultures has caused us to adopt English jokes about the French and Irish to an extraordinary degree.

AzJeff

Yep. That's what happens when you surrender.
You pretty much have to accept the terms dictated by your conqueror.
Plus, lot's of British, Polish, Danish, Norwegian, Belgian, and Dutch equipment/supplies fell into the German's hands too - why should the same from the French be any different?

Quote:

as well as the alignment of colonial possessions with the Nazis.

France had colonies in North Africa, the MiddleEast and in SouthEast Asia - all became Vichy.
Vichy in metropolitan France was dismantled by Germany in 1942, although it continued to administer it's overseas colonies.
None, with the exception of Tunisia in 1943, ever had German or Italian troops in them. And even then, they were only there because they Allies had run them out of Egypt and Libya.

Quote:

One graphic example, the French should not have surrendered their Navy and thereby force the British to attack it. It should have sailed immediately for British ports and waters. They would have been very useful in the Med. Naval War and the U-Boat war.

There was never any plan to hand over the French fleet to Germany. Most of the fleet was moved to colonial (non-continental) ports, presumably out of reach of the Germans.
Of course, if the Germans wanted to forcefully take the ships, they could have - and this is what the British were afraid of.

See here:
French Fleet

HaysooChreesto!

Apparently you're not very familiar with the resistance movements that occurred in EVERY SINGLE NAZI OCCUPIED NATION during WWII. The French did have a fairly effective resistance, but it was the PR generated by the French government after they were liberated that made it seem so much more effective than that of Denmark or Poland.

If I loved another the country the way you love France, I would honest to Jebus move there. And I'm not a "love it or leave it" type of guy.

August Spies

Yes there was some resistance everywhere, but not nearly at the level of france. Or so they teach us in history class.

I do love france for many of the reasons listed, though many of them would apply to other countries as well (say Germany). I probably will end up living there, but im not THAT much of a French-lover.

I just get so tired of hearing stupid shit said about the french all the time.

Layman

[QUOTE]Originally posted by August Spies
[B]And many European countries have signed on with us. Britain, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Denmark, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Bulgaria, Romania.

It proves that the majority of European countries support us.

I'm aware that many in Britian and Spain aren't enthusiastic about it, but do you have polling data for all of these countries?

Hmm. I have yet to see a constitution requiring democratically elected leaders to do exactly what a few public opinion polls tell them to.

If these leaders really thought their populations would hold this against them, I doubt they would be as enthusiastic about it as they are.

And kudos for them for doing what they were elected to do.

[quote]Personally I think most people are just jealous of the french, or at least they should be. [/quiote]

Hack.

How many Americans even know anything about this?

Most of the jokes have to do with France's image as a wuss, not as wrongly philosophical.

They do? Then why do they have to pass laws that restrict the playing of American music and shows?

It seems that the French themselves don't even know they have the best art and film.

Yeah, nothing like the Reign of Terror to inspire amazement.

I'll take our Revolution over theirs. Thanks. And we only had to have one (arguablly two if you count the Civil War). What is France on, its sixth republic?

Hmmm, I still think I prefer ours.

More along the lines of mispronounced German. But anyway, I'm skeptical this is the reason for the rise in anti-French humor.

I actually never made any such comment. I just passed along some jokes and explained how they got that image.

Ah, but Napolean's ascensions showed the instability, and IMO inferiority, of the French Revolution.

I think its rather misleading to compare the two. The Roman Republic had a restricted, but real democratic tradition.

It was about handing the Germans tons and tons of supplies, weapons, and warships, strategic ports and airfields, as well as the alignment of colonial possessions with the Nazis.

What would give you that idea?

France surrendered when it had fight left in it. And they surrendered their Navy, the guns of the Maginot line, and more equipment than ten times that of Belgium, Poland, Norway and Cech.

Jolimont

Allow me to also point out things that I heard earlier on NPR. The Germans are much more adamant than the French about not helping the US in their war against Iraq, yet, the jokes are mostly about the French. Why? Because the French didn't immigrate to America in great numbers, so it's fairly safe to poke fun since there aren't that many Americans whose roots are entirely French. There are millions with German roots, as a matter of fact, you my reader, probably have German ancestry and no French, am I right?

If the Italians or Irish governments were against the war in Iraq (thereby reflecting public opinion in those countries) do you think there would be that kind of talk about Italians or Irish? Hell no! Italians and Irish are huge voting pools in this country!

So joke away my friends, no sweat off my back! And thanks Lamma for the well wishes!

August Spies

It proves that the majority of European countries support us.

only if you define country as the leaders of a goverment and NOT the people.

but do you have polling data for all of these countries?

There has been a lot posted on here recently, ill try to find it again if you want.

And kudos for them for doing what they were elected to do.
Go against the popular will?

Then why do they have to pass laws that restrict the playing of American music and shows?

First off I was talkign quality wise not quantity wise. The most popular music/film is rarely if ever the best. Imho at least. But there is a lot more to this than you would like to believe. American films are able to make enough money here that all outside play is just pure profit. They sell movies to other countries for extremely cheap. A european film maker, who is appealing to a smaller audiance, is hard pressed to make their money back. Regardless, French films are widley popular and many make it over to america, more than other countries.

As for their amazing revolutinary history I was talking about much more than just 1789 kiddo.

More along the lines of misprounced german? Sorry but there is probably a lot more french than german in english as far as pronunciation is concerend. We are germanic in our grammatical structure, but much of our vocabulary comes directly from French (since France controlled england and forbade english to be written. Spoken languages change quickly and rapidly absorb langauges around them)

What would give you that idea?

well why single out that France turned stuff over when EVERY country does this, every time??? I guess I assumed you would have a point.

August Spies

I just passed along some jokes and explained how they got that image.

If you just wanted to tell jokes I might suggest the Humor forum would be more appropriate.

theyeti

Layman:

Saying that these countries have "signed on with us" is a gross exaggeration. The statement that these countries signed says that they "support the US". It does not say that they support an attack against Iraq in the absence of a UN resolution. In fact, the French remarked that they might have even been willing to sign that statement, but they weren't asked, so it naturally they took it as a snub.

None of those countries, save the UK, is in any real position to help us. And none of those countries has anywhere close to a majority of people who suppotr a non-UN sponsored war. That list serves no purpose other than propaganda.

I strongly suggest you learn a bit more about European geography. The eleven countries you list hardly make a majority.

theyeti