Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Kimpatsu · 04-22-2003, 09:17 AM

Two lesbians have two wombs.
And what's wrong with adoption?
FYI: Gay marriage should be legal; gay couples should have the same rights as heterosexual ones vis-a-vis inheritance and tax breaks.

dk · 04-22-2003, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
Two lesbians have two wombs.
And what's wrong with adoption?
FYI: Gay marriage should be legal; gay couples should have the same rights as heterosexual ones vis-a-vis inheritance and tax breaks.

Mom and Co-Mom deprive a child of their father and that's a problem gay marriage can't address. You're the first one on this thread to come right out and say it, many gays and lesbians want marriage benefits. Gay people have every right to negotiate with their employers for benefits and salary. I have no problem with that, but it has nothing to do with gay marriage.

Clutch · 04-22-2003, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Recreational and/or promiscuous sex of any kind leads to unwed mothers, STIs, PIDs, sterility, abandoned children, broken families, amputated families, divorce, and a host of problems in public education.

dk, oh no! You left out logical positivism this time!

Do you have anything to offer except absurdly confounded causal claims, and your massive sense of enfranchaisement to pronounce that what bothers you must be evil, dammit, evil?

dk · 04-22-2003, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Treacle Worshipper: This is why I didn't understand you saying it was disinformation. The part I quoted clearly states that condom use does not protect you 100% from pregnancy or disease, and therefore they're not spreading false info, deliberately or otherwise.

dk: I�m not sure about the rate of condoms failure in the real world. Since > 20 million people (7%) in the US population carry HPV and condoms don�t prevent transmission HPV, then �Safe Sex� and the �Safer Sex� spin the wrong message. This doesn�t address the psychopathological questions about suicide, violence, crime and drug addictions that accompany promiscuous sex.

Treacle Worshipper: Safer sex is more accurate. I suspect the "Safe Sex" label has something to do with the Puritan roots in all elements of US society. Question, this side of the Atlantic they sanction anonymous gay sex at gay venues to collect information on hiv/aids, and educate gays that frequent the establishments. What's the policy across the Atlantic?
As far as I know, no such things exist. HIV/AIDS statistics are gathered from test results. As transmission is greater via het sex in Britain, there is be more concentration on that issue. I will try to find some info to back these up.
dk: From what I�ve read, the high rate of incidence of hiv/aids in heterosexuals stems from Britain�s greater contact with Sub-Saharan Africa. Implicit from the US(2) incidence ration v. UK incidence ration (.73) for hetero sex i.e. US:2(women)/1(men) verses UK:3(women)/2(men). This probably reflects the more virulent heterosexual strains of HIV brought back from British travels to Sub Saharan Africa.

Code:

 Table 1 Numbers of new diagnoses by sex and trprobable 
route of transmission in the UK: data to end of September 2002 
Number of new diagnoses

Infection route              Male          Female
--------------------------   ----          ------
sex between men             28,326          �
Sex between men and women    6,701         9,171
Injecting drug use           2,681         1,210
Blood factor eg haemophilia  1,341            12
Blood transfusion              158           183
Mother to child                438           421
Other/undetermined           1,439           603
--------------------------   ----          ------
Total                       41,084        11,600
 http://www.phls.org.uk/publications/...archive03.html

Here�s a scary article everyone should read Harvard AIDs Review
Treacle Worshipper: IIRC when I was at school we dealt with HIV transmission/prevention in the context of the biology course (as opposed to having "sex ed"). Of course, things have probably changed in the last 10 years.
dk: I have a problem with the �Don�t blame the victim� mentality that precedes epidemiological hiv/aids research in the US. This doesn�t pertain to the gay marriage hypothetical. The following pertains to gay culture and venues...

Quote:

Risky Social Venues
The social structure of gay culture is another factor supporting high-risk behavior. In many cities, gay bars and public sex areas are the only gathering sites for gay men. Even in San Francisco, where there are more social options available to gay men, the context in which gay men can be together is often one that does not promote safer sex.

"When I go to a bar, I'm amazed at the ability of young gay people to have a phenomenal time," says Romero. "Conversely, I think, my God, what are we doing to ourselves? I'm watching us practice unsafe and unhealthy behaviors, like drinking, drug abuse, sex abuse. I think how sad it is that this is the only place where we can be together."
----- http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hai/news.../fall98-3.html

Points 2-5 of by argument is that gay people need to clean up gay culture, not dissolve the nuclear family with the x-family (gay marriage).

Philosoft · 04-22-2003, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
It is to me and many others. As obvious as it is to you that incestuous marriages are detrimental to society.

Look again. I never said or implied "incestuous marriages are detrimental to society."

Quote:

To say that taking fathers out of the black community didn't have disastrous results is insane.

I'm glad I didn't say that.

dk · 04-22-2003, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clutch
dk, oh no! You left out logical positivism this time!

Do you have anything to offer except absurdly confounded causal claims, and your massive sense of enfranchaisement to pronounce that what bothers you must be evil, dammit, evil? [/B]

No, no, these are entailments that have followed from the breakdown of the nuclear family.

Lets take K1-K12 education. From 1900 to 1950 the first generation of German, Polish and Italian immigrants learned to read/write in public schools. Many of these kids(1st generation) fought in WWII and Korea, and then returned to graduate college on the GI Bill of Rights. Their parents could not even speak English, much less teach them to read or write. The credit has to go to the schools.

Then in the 1970s children of native speakers, with parent[s] that spoke and wrote English fluently began to graduate in droves after 12 years of public education functionally illiterate.

There's simply no explanation, well more accurately no excuse. What happened to public education?

What happened was the nuclear family began to disintegrate in the 1970s. What proof is there. Well today the best students in public schools are Asian immigrants with a strong nuclear family.

Clutch · 04-22-2003, 12:12 PM

Quote:

What proof is there. Well today the best students in public schools are Asian immigrants with a strong nuclear family.

In short, the same evidence that having an epicanthal fold causes literacy...

Thanks for responding so promptly with a lovely confirmation of my point.

dk · 04-22-2003, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clutch
In short, the same evidence that having an epicanthal fold causes literacy...

Thanks for responding so promptly with a lovely confirmation of my point.

Your poorly masked racial slur "slant eyed Asians" only confirms your bigotry.

Clutch · 04-22-2003, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Your poorly masked racial slur "slant eyed Asians" only confirms your bigotry.

LOL! Nice try, Captain Evasion. Good to see your impoverished ability to recognize logical relations extends to your ad hominem attempts, too!

dk · 04-22-2003, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clutch
LOL! Nice try, Captain Evasion. Good to see your impoverished ability to recognize logical relations extends to your ad hominem attempts, too!

So what do you have against Asian's epicanthal fold? Why mention it?

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04-22-2003, 09:17 AM	#331
Kimpatsu Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tokyo Posts: 1,126	Two lesbians have two wombs. And what's wrong with adoption? FYI: Gay marriage should be legal; gay couples should have the same rights as heterosexual ones vis-a-vis inheritance and tax breaks.

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