dangin

No they are not. Your brain does not know the difference between a live naked woman in front of you, and a virtual naked woman on a video, or still picture. Just like imagining food makes your brain have a pavlovian reaction in the form of saliva production, so does pornography create an erection and desire for sexual release. Pornography as an aide to self sex AKA masturbation is also another reason why it is simply a facet of sex. Finally, I didn't originally say they were the same thing, I said we are hard wired to be interested in sex, and this makes the interest level in pornography obvious. A menu is not food, but when we are hungry we are certainly interested in what is printed on said menu.

Once again this "weakest most defenseless" argument of yours has been refuted quite well and repeatedly. It has also been repeatedly pointed out that part of the problem are attitudes like yours. If porn were not part of the "underbelly" of the entertainment business, but was fully and openly embraced as the necessary service that it is, there would be no stigma. There would be more "socially responsible" groups interested in providing it and providing a better standard of professional life for the talent. Which is not to say that there are not those who create media for this industry in a responsible fashion, as has also been reiterated several times in this thread.

luvluv

What Silent Acorn said.

tronvillain

luvluv:
I do not actually have daughters, but I have no problem picturing a future daughter doing it. Although as LadyShea points out, I am not sure why you are labelling the men in porn as "random selfish assholes" and jerks" and the sex as "rough and unfeeling." Finally, what is wrong with a money shot? Semen should be fun, not disgusting. *chuckle*

Silent Acorns

Glad to hear it. I like yours too, even though it has to be the antithesis of mine.

dangin

Lady Shea and COAS - Anti-prurients aside (as if, those protesting here are obviously fascinated by sex) Your contributions, anecdotes, and courage in this thread are remarkable. I appreciate the knowledge I have gained from your posts.

luvluv

dangin:

How exactly?

tronvillian:

And I assume the same thing could be said for your sisters or your mother or any woman you care about?

christ-on-a-stick

Thanks, dangin.

I have appreciated your comments and insights as well.

In the final analysis, it has been an interesting discussion for me to say the least and I've enjoyed hearing everybody's thoughts, opinions and personal experiences as well (well, almost everybody - that Odemus was kind of a d*ck! )

Lauri

viscousmemories

LoL. You rock, COAS. Really you do.

Thanks Dangin, I think that's a tremendously important point. I wish I'd thought to mention it myself. I have often thought that a lot of the shame, guilt, and depression that results from certain types of non-standard sexual expression is more the fault of social condemnation than an inherent evil.

For example:

In my very early teens (perhaps a little younger) I had run away from home. I was sitting in a bench on the University campus at about 2:00 a.m., when I was approached by a middle-aged man who claimed to be a lawyer from New York. He was very kind and friendly, and told me stories about things I had no experience with. For instance, he mentioned being a Boy Scout troupe leader, and told me that he and the boys participated in regular "circle-jerks". He explained all of this to me in a way that made it seem as though there was a common standard of sexuality that I simply had never been taught. Having learned nothing about sexuality in my fundamentalist christian upbringing. (They had sex ed in my Jr. High, but I was made to sit in the Library during it by a note from my Mother.)

Eventually, we ended up in his hotel room. As an ignorant young person I was easily coerced into allowing him to perform oral sex on me. However, for reasons I am not aware of even to this day, I was repulsed by the idea of his request that I respond in kind, and did not. He was amiable throughout, and suggested that I should go home. He drove me home, introduced himself to my Mother as someone who had "bumped into me" on campus, and left. My Mother was suspicious, but I felt more comfortable with him than I had with her, so I never told her what happened.

However, he called me several times over the coming days, and eventually my Mother got on the phone and told him to stop calling or she'd call the police. I was furious. From my perspective, my Mother was simply trying to destroy my chances at the freedom he was offering me (he offered to let me move in with him, not have to go to school, etc.) Eventually police were involved, but nothing ever happened because I refused to participate in a "sting".

I felt the fear and shame and guilt from this experience for many years afterward. However, it is my opinion that these feelings derived not from what transpired between this man and myself (although I do believe that his actions were immoral and of course illegal), but from the looks and comments and innuendos I got from everyone else. When you are raised to believe that sex is wrong and sick and dirty, you can't help but feel shame and regret when you partake of it, whether or not you are a willing participant. To me that is the problem.

luvluv

What would you have wanted your parents to do?

If your child is coerced into allowing someone to perform oral sex on them when they are underage, are you going to let this person call your house? Would you let them move in with this person?

Silent Acorns

Gee Willickers, luvluv! He isn't upset by how his parents reacted to the pedophile, but how their overly puratinical views on sex made him feel guilty even when he was the victem.