Deacon Doubtmonger

Greetings from a new user in Denver.

I have been reading this thread with much interest, as I too am an atheist who suffers from clinical depression. Among other reasons for it, my self-esteem has plummeted from constant biblical pronouncements that I'm a spiritual scumbag headed straight for God's BBQ pit. (New charcoal ad: "And God said, Let there be swift, sure and even heat that My sinners may be roasted flavorfully in the sight of My nostrils.... Well done, thou good and faithful Kingsford! Enter now into the joy of the Lord!")

I would like to ask if anyone can shed some light on a Christian response to mental illness that I hope and pr-- (oops) exists only in theory: Are there Christian mental hospitals, and if so, could Christians have unbelievers committed to them involuntarily? I know there are Christian outpatient clinics, like Minirth-Meier in Dallas, and a peek at the Denver yellow pages will reveal *tons* of Christian psychotherapists, but what of hospitals?

This scenario may seem outlandish at present, but come with me now into the future, where the would-be theocrats in the US have finally got their way:

You are an unrepentant atheist living in a city where a new Christian mental hospital has gone up; of course, since all the faith-based charity initiatives passed, your tax swag went to build it. The letter of the civil commitment law remains the same: you cannot be confined unless you are an immediate danger to yourself, to others, or to property. Unfortunately, since Christians now get to define what danger is, you are now in LARGE trouble:

(1) You have not accepted Jesus as your Lord and personal Savior [ever wanna break the shift keys on a Christian's keyboard?], and are thus headed for Hell; you are therefore a danger to yourself.

(2) If you speak of your unbelief to anyone, they may start doubting too, and thus are also headed for Hell; you are therefore a danger to others.

(3) Let's not even think about what it means if you're so disgusted by the power, prestige and financial luxury enjoyed by the local tax do-- ... church, you stride up to the altar, lower your trousers, and make an offering.

(4) Some devout-oid calls the cops and has you committed.

You will now be confined, at the mercy of the entire psychiatric *and* religious armamentaria (drugs, shock treatment, haranguing therapists and pastors, endless mandatory bible reading, etc.) until you can meet the following "Objective [!] Criteria for Discharge" (OCFD). These are no joke: they appear in a textbook called *Christ Centered Therapy* by Neil T. Anderson, Terry E. Zuehlke and Julianne S. Zuehlke (Zondervan, 2000); though they appear to be primarily for outpatient therapists, it's no stretch to imagine them used in hospitals.

===quoted===

SYMPTOM: Uses self-deception in such a manner that results in hearing God's Word but not implementing it, denying sin ...

OCFD: States an integrated sense of self and relies on Christ as the only defense needed (pp. 212-213)

SYMPTOM: Refuses to appropriately submit to established lines of authority (for example, employers, parents, husbands [!], civil government, church leaders, therapist, and God)

OCFD: Verbally declares the choice to be submissive and appropriately obedient to those in appropriate authority over oneself (pp. 214-215)

SYMPTOM: Lives independently of others and God and relies solely on own strengths and resources

OCFD: ... verbally declares a commitment to place confidence in God for [OXYMORON ALERT] empowering a humble attitude ... (p. 215)

===end quoted===

Imagine being told that cognitive-behavioral therapy is a *biblical* counseling technique (224), that an eating disorder constitutes violation of biblical injunctions against false gods and idolatry (239), that depression is caused by "any conflicts that may exist between you and your heavenly Father" (277), or that to beat addiction, you must learn "how to take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ" (304). [That's the DEFINITION of addiction, thou morons! Every thought is upon the next "fix"! So now we'll hear people in treatment centers say, "I've got a Son of God on my back"???]

BTW: If anyone's wondering whether insurance companies will bite on this, the book has an entire section on how to "convert any of the seven major areas of spiritual conflict into impairment language" (p. 209).

Sorry to have gone on for so long, but I'm rather horrified at the thought of this. Villainess had said earlier, "I am firmly convinced that Christianity often masks mental illness in practitioners." Well, imagine the hue and cry among Christians if we atheists decided their constant kneeling was evidence of obsessive-compulsive disorder, so we had them committed and forced to eat from the Tree of Anafranil till they stopped banging their patellae on the ground for good ...

Any insight on this matter is gratefully appreciated. Thanks --

Deacon Doubtmonger of Denver

P.S. If you ever face a commitment hearing after making the above-noted offering, you could defend yourself in court biblically. It's right there in Job: "Yet his meat in his bowels is turned ... He hath swallowed down riches and ... God shall cast them out of his belly." (20:14-15)

HelenM

I hope you're in some kind of counseling/therapy that will help you develop the ability not to take personally the beliefs of other people that you don't agree with.

We already live in a society where if a group of people decide someone is mentally ill, they can take away that person's rights. It's happened to me. It doesn't matter what legal rights a person has because there's always the disclaimer that 'in an emergency...', so all they have to do is claim it was an emergency

I think there's danger of abuse whenever you say that people can take away the rights of others. Whether their reasons are based on religious belief or not.

I agree with you that it would never be right to hospitalize someone for mental illness (or to otherwise mistreat them or remove their rights) just because they don't agree with 'the establishment'. I'm sure it's happened in this country and we know it happens around the world.

Helen

DamagedGoods

Based on what I recall of stories about prophets in the bible, some of those guys were completely whacked. Eating little or no food for weeks at a time (until they had hallucinations - oh, excuse me...'visions'), lying in the street for weeks or months, eating dung bread cooked over dung briquettes, sacrificing their son or daughter and killing their neighbors....all because voices in their head told them to....

I think you would probably be justified in saying anyone doing these things today would be classified as having far more serious mental problems than depression. That might be a good response the next time somebody wants to make a big deal of clinical depression, especially if you could cite examples from their own book.

I tend to go through cycles where I'm depressed; whether they're bad enough to be called clinical depression I don't know. I'm not a happy-happy joy-joy kind of person anyway, and when I was a fundie I always figured that meant I was less spiritual than the grinning idiots with whom I associated. I am certainly glad to be rid of all that nonsense....depression is hard enough by itself without having a bunch of grievous religious burdens piled on top of it.

BadBadBad

Don't you just love the Baptists?


On The Sufficiency Of Scripture In A Therapeutic Culture
June 2002



WHEREAS, Southern Baptists are committed to the authority, sufficiency, and relevance of the Bible (2 Timothy 3:15-17); and

WHEREAS, The Bible teaches that human beings are created in the image of God�made by Him, like Him, and for Him (Genesis 1:27-28)�and that because of sinful rebellion against the Creator, our entire being suffers from sin�s corruption (Genesis 3:6-19; Ecclesiastes 9:3; Romans 1-3); and

WHEREAS, All aspects of our lives�including our spiritual, moral, and psychological conditions�are to be informed and governed by the application of and obedience to Holy Scripture (1 Corinthians 10:31); and

WHEREAS, In this therapeutic culture, physicians and counselors often ignore human sin and its effects, neglect our most fundamental human and spiritual needs, and therefore, misunderstand our condition, mistreat our problems, and sometimes unintentionally do more harm than good; and

WHEREAS, An uncritical acceptance of the therapeutic culture too often has infected our pulpits, ministries, and counseling (Colossians 2:8); and

WHEREAS, Our churches often have neglected our God-ordained responsibility for the care and cure of souls, becoming practically ineffective, both marginalizing ourselves from the culture and being marginalized by the mental health establishment; now, therefore, be it

RESOLVED, That the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in St. Louis, Missouri, June 11-12, 2002, affirm Christian counseling that relies upon the Word of God rather than theories that are rooted in a defective understanding of human nature (John 17:17); and be it further

RESOLVED, That we affirm that any method worthy of the name �Christian counseling� must address the root of our problems and reveal the crux of God�s solution�the redemptive work of Christ and the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit through the Word of God, by which the depths of sin and the fullness of grace are made known (Hebrews 4:12-16); and be it further

RESOLVED, That, while we affirm that there are real conditions that warrant legitimate medical treatment, we reject the assumptions of the therapeutic culture that offer a pharmacological solution for every human problem; and be it finally

RESOLVED, That we call on all Southern Baptists and our churches to reclaim practical biblical wisdom, Christ-centered counseling, and the restorative ministry of the care and cure of souls.

DamagedGoods

I like my version better:

....That, we affirm that there are real conditions that warrant legitimate medical treatment, but we reject the assumptions of the theological culture that offer a spiritual solution for every human problem....

SharonDee

I'll say they do! They often overlook the effects on patients caused by the concept of human sin.

BadBadBad

Wouldn't it be shocking if it actually did say that? That might have made headlines!

CX

I've never experienced that exactly. I am on medication for OCD and anxiety but nobody's ever seized on that in a debate. That being said, it's a stupid argument. Of the millions of people who suffer from clinical depression, how many are atheists? What does that say about all the millions of believers with depression or some other mental illness?
Mental illness does not discriminate based on ideology. Furthermore I recently read that charismatic Xians are more likely to suffer from mental illness than the general population. I would not conclude from that that charismatic Xianity causes mental illness, but rather that the mentally ill are more susceptible to the insanity of charismatic Xianity.

CX

And another thing. I am patiently waiting for the day not far off when religious belief is include in the DSM IV. Heh.

villainess

This thread is great.

I'm currently working on an article for an upcoming anthology, theme: women and madness. As it happens, I'm doing an article on women, mental illness and religion, inspired partly by a morbid "what went wrong" fascination with the Andrea Yates case.

Some of the information getting shared here is very timely for me for that reason, especially brettc's and Deacon Doubtmonger's posts.

Thanks!

the_villainess