Eric H

I believe that faith is an extremely powerful tool,

If there is a challenge that you feel may be well beyond what you are capable of achieving, the first step is to believe in yourself.

This means a certain amount of believing in the unknown, and then you put your trust in yourself and commit yourself 100 percent to this task. The chances are that if you truly believe and have a real faith that you can succeed then you probably will.

This has been my main recipe for success in many cycling endurance events.

However as a philosophy I believe that faith in God requires an even greater commitment and trust.


I can sit here writing this and say “I believe it is easy to make a parachute jump” believing is easy because it requires no action, beliefs can only have a meaning if I am prepared to act on them.
The only way I can have faith in parachuting is to put a parachute on go up in a plane and jump.

It involves total trust in some unknown factors, how can I know if the parachute is safe? How can I know if the person who tested it and packed it was not drunk and having a bad day? How can I know if the pilot will drop me of in a safe place? Making a parachute jump is taking a risk some people have suffered a serious injury other people have been killed? If I have any doubts I will not jump by choice.

Partial faith is not enough, how can I partially jump out of a plane? Maybe I have a small amount of faith, would that be just enough to jump off the kitchen table?

Partial faith or a little faith is the same as having no faith at all because we do not take the risk to let our life depend on the parachute. Only by stepping out of a plane and into the unknown will I put all my faith into these unproven factors about parachuting that I can only believe and hope would be sound for me.
If I make one jump I only need faith once, if I make several jumps I need a new faith for each time I jump. If I have a close experience with death while parachuting will I still have enough faith to make another jump?

It is easy to believe in God, believing in God can have no meaning and no value if it is only an academic exercise. How can I have faith in God? It requires total trust, like parachuting we need to jump and put our trust fully in God and hope that he will look after us. But how can I prove that there is a God? How many Gods are there? There are lots of claims for all religions how can I know which religions are acceptable to God? How can I know what to do if I believe in a God? How can I know if there is life after death?

Even though we cannot prove that there is a God and a greater life after death, our actions should show that we trust there is a very real God and that he will look after us when we die. If we are to believe in a God there is a need to believe in a God in the greatest way so that we may act towards each other in the greatest way.

With partial faith or a little faith we will only do the less demanding things that God asks of us, things that we feel comfortable with. Partial faith or a little faith is not enough; to have faith in God once is not enough; faith should be a continuous journey throughout life. Each day we show our faith in God by the way in which we relate and act towards all our neighbours that we come into contact with.

Do I have a real belief that my God created the whole human family including people, who are atheists, Muslims, Jews, and Christians? Do I really love all these people as I love myself? Do my words and actions show that I have faith that we are all related through one God even though they believe differently to me? What kind of a risk am I prepared to take because I have faith in God in this way? If I have a bad experience with other people will I doubt my faith, will I loose my faith? In times of temptation is my faith in God strong enough to do what is right? By my actions do I take the risk to do what is right in threatening circumstances and not follow the crowd because I have faith in God and a greater life after death.

If the religions of the world pray for peace why isn’t there peace between them? Is it a lack of faith; is it easier to pray for peace to happen in some distant land than to seek a relationship with people from all the diverse faith communities where I live?
To have faith in God is voluntary, I have the freedom to choose God through any religion I like, or I can reject God by choice.

peace

Eric

Philosoft

I don't know how philosophical that post was, but I'll let it go for the moment. I do, however have a huge problem with the above statement. I'm an atheist because of the individual and additive effects of my life experiences. I no more chose to not-believe in God than I can choose to not-believe my monitor is 18 inches in front of my face. Likewise, the "choice" of religion is heavily influenced by the religion of one's parents/community/society, almost to the point of determination. It is philosophically naïve to suggest that choices are made in deterministic vacuums, especially ones as complex and fundamental as god-belief.

DRFseven

The idea that we don't all operate extensively on faith is preposterous. As infants, given the proper circumstances, we learn to have faith that our parents will meet our needs, that the face will appear over the crib, that the arms will reach out and that we will be comforted. If we don't learn to have this kind of trust, the consequences are dire for the rest of our lives. Ironically, the more we are able to trust in early life, the more likely we are to become strong, relatively fearless, independent individuals. Faith is so much a part of our lives that we don't even realize we have it, yet the vast majority of us have faith that tomorrow morning we'll see sunlight instead of a dark sky, that our car will start when we turn the key (even those of us who have no idea how that works), that when we become ill, we'll get better, that we'll frequently use the exercise equipment we're ordering, that our spouses love us and won't leave us, etc. Faith is not a bad thing to have; life would be impossible without it. It's only when we maintain faith in a losing proposition that faith is counterproductive, as in the case of gambling addiction or, uhm, well, other things that come to mind.

sodium

So, do I understand that you realize that jumping caries a small risk, and that you do not believe the risk is acceptable, but by an act of faith you convince yourself that it can't happen to you? That's like the old definition of faith as believing what you know ain't so.

Who are you trusting? Are you trusting God to exist? I don't think it really makes sense to trust someone to exist. If they don't exist, it isn't there fault. Or are you trusting your parents who told you that God exists? You must be trusting someone, mustn't you.

Perhaps wishing for things, and trusting they'll come to pass isn't such a universal recipe for success after all. Perhaps thinking things through and being realistic has its place as well.

Keith Russell

eric, I have a close friend who jumps regularly.

Sure, having 'faith' in the 'chute, the person who packed it, the pilot, etc., can get you in the plane, and can help motivate you to jump out of the plane, but--

--people die every year while parachuting. It is a very dangerous sport.

'Faith' won't help you at all when things go wrong.

And, there are other motivators...

Keith.

Eric H

Hello Philosoft.

Quote Philosoft Likewise, the "choice" of religion is heavily influenced by the religion of one's parents/community/society, almost to the point of determination.
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I agree with you in these circumstances. When religion is forced on people it is wrong, and when you take this to an extreme conclusion you end up with religion being the motivation for torture and inquisitions back in the dark ages.

However in most democracies today people do have more choice in choosing a faith, and while parents and society can try and exert pressures on children and people, it does not work very well.


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Quote Philosoft, It is philosophically naïve to suggest that choices are made in deterministic vacuums, especially ones as complex and fundamental as god-belief.
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I feel that many teenagers drop religion, I feel that parents and society have less influence over children today, because they are more knowledgeable. Maybe religion is being taught in the wrong way.




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Quote sodium, So, do I understand that you realize that jumping caries a small risk, and that you do not believe the risk is acceptable, but by an act of faith you convince yourself that it can't happen to you? That's like the old definition of faith as believing what you know ain't so.
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Hello sodium, my philosophy is a way of overcoming a real fear, it is not a question of being blind to any risk. You still have to jump for a first time, you still have to let your life hang on the parachute. Keith describes parachuting as a dangerous sport, and I tend to have this view.

Faith requires action despite knowing these risks.



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Quote sodium, Or are you trusting your parents who told you that God exists? You must be trusting someone, mustn't you.
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Up to teenage years we are influenced by our parents, teachers, and priests but then we start thinking for ourselves, and I stopped believing in the church for around thirty years. I don’t think that I stopped believing God existed during these thirty years, I just did nothing about it because I could not see any sense in how the church portrayed faith in God.



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Quote sodium, Perhaps wishing for things, and trusting they'll come to pass isn't such a universal recipe for success after all. Perhaps thinking things through and being realistic has its place as well.
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I agree with you, and that is the point, at some stage there is the need to stop hoping and actually start to do things for yourself.




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Quote Keith, 'Faith' won't help you at all when things go wrong.
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If you where to die then you stop needing faith, however if you live through a close to death experience, that is when your faith is tested the most.

Do you loose your faith and trust, never to repeat the experience again,

or do you come out of it with a stronger faith and find the courage to try again?




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Quote Keith, And, there are other motivators...
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Often the motivation is to test yourself in some way, to push boundaries, to go beyond your own comfort zone.



Peace

Eric

Philosoft

No, you're wrong. It works exceedingly well. Children follow the religion of their parents and/or community in a very high percentage of cases.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. Well over 80% of this country self-identifies as Christian.

Eric H

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quote Philsoft, No, you're wrong. It works exceedingly well. Children follow the religion of their parents and/or community in a very high percentage of cases.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. Well over 80% of this country self-identifies as Christian.
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I am sure people use statistics in many ways, but when I look around in church I don’t see to many teenagers or people in their early twenties.

And while 80% of people might identify themselves as Christian, probably only a small fraction are practicing Christians.


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Quote Bill B…I think Mark Twain put it best when he said "Faith is believing what you know ain't so".
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I would say the opposite to Mark Twain, faith is acting on beliefs, that you believe to be true.

If and only if God exists then we need faith to act on what we believe he is saying. Believing is a struggle, faith is an even greater struggle.

If God exists then he must be greater than all the thousands of separate religions that exist.

If God exists then it makes more sense that we are all created by the same God, and this seems to cause a conflict in faith.

Somehow we have to acknowledge that people of all beliefs have the freedom to worship in the way they feel best. Also there will always be people who do not believe in God, and that is their choice also.

peace

Eric

Keith Russell

Greetings:

It seems we're getting into the 'no True Scotsman' phase of the discussion.

It seems there is disagreement about whether these 'Christians' (who comprise a large majority of Americans) really are (or really aren't) Christians, because they don't go to church regularly, don't live a 'Christian' life, etc.

Most people do follow their parents' religion. (Yes to whatever degree they follow any religion at all.)

So they don't go to church? So they don't really live according to the teachings of the faith they profess?

They still vote, they still immerse their children in their religion, etc. They may not be 'Christian' by everyone's standards, but they call themselves Christians, and thus they--at least--oppose atheism, etc.

Keith.

Philosoft

Forgive me, but at this point, I'm unwilling to generalize the constituency of your church to the entirety of Christian U.S.

I'm also unwilling to accept your definition of "practicing Christian," inasmuch as everyone probably has their own. I have Catholic friends who are quite faithful, but don't "practice" as you would presumably expect. You'll might judge them non-true Christians, but they'll just shrug off your assertion. Who's right? How do we tell?