Fr.Andrew

Spurly, you've still not said why homosexuals are a "negative influence"--much less why they would be on a par, analogy-wise, with murderers and "greedy, materialistic people". Your analogy.

Do you reject the notion that homosexuals can serve as positive role models for children? If so, on what grounds?

spurly

For my children, or for children of most people who follow Christ, yes I reject the notion that people who are actively involved in a homosexual life-style can be a positive role-model.

People who struggle with homosexual feelings - and are choosing to overcome those and remain celibate - however, can be great role models.

For me, I would not want my children looking up to anyone as a role model who was actively involved in any sin who refused to stand and fight against the temptation Satan was throwing at them.

Here's how it plays out in real life. I am a youth minister - which means I am actively involved in the spiritual training of children and teenagers. Currently we have a couple teaching our 1st and 2nd grade class and the husband, in the past, has lived in the homosexual lifestyle. When he talks to me or one of the other staff members, he tells us it is a constant struggle to win the battle over his homosexual tendencies, but he is winning the struggle. Not only that, he is constantly counseling others who are dealing with the same struggle in their life. Is he unfit to teach the students? No. He is someone who is struggling, but to the best of his ability wants to live a holy, God-honoring life.

However, if that were not the case, if he was living a life where he was actively involved in the homosexual lifestyle and did not want to exercise self-control, then we would ask him to step down as a teacher. Would we ask him to stop coming to church? No. But we would ask him to give up his teaching position.

I hope you see the difference. It's not that I would love the second person any less, it's that my love for them and for the students would dictate that a different person teach the class.

I hope this helps you understand where I am coming from.

Kevin

Hedwig

Spurly, so what's your feeling regarding unmarried people who opt to live together. Would you be opposed to them mentoring children?

spurly

Yes. The same principle applies in this situation. Since they are living a lifestyle that thumbs their nose at God, I would ask them to either get married or step down from teaching.

Would I ask them to leave the church and no longer worship with us? No. But if they claimed to follow God, I would help them understand what God's view was on this subject. If they truly were wanting to be a follower of Christ, they would want to get their lives in line with his will.

Kevin

christ-on-a-stick

Sorry. please disregard

Sue Sponte

It's just fine for you to spoil that ignorance by imposing your religious views on children, correct?

How do you "love" someone by imposing your belief-set on theological issues? You've created a mantra that lets you believe you are somehow loving someone else by wanting them to be and think like you. Acceptance, tolerance, compassion, understanding, empathy, these things apparently don't fall within your definition of love. I can do without such "love", thank you.

ybnormal

I hope this helps you understand where I am coming from.

No, it does not help, Minister Spurly... there was never any doubt, exactly where you were coming from... blatant bigotry is not an easy prejudice to hide... you are a minister and it is you who admittedly teaches this evil crap to generation after generation...

There are no words you can say at this point that could possibly erase your earlier statements... I reckon you could get on your knees and beg forgiveness then promise to go and sin no more... but then you'd still make sure that all the fresh young minds were properly molested by your world of hateful xian lessons.

Like I told you earlier... you folks represent everything that is wrong in this tired old world, generation after generation after generation...

Nickle

What a great story. Now, do you want to answer Fr. Andrew's question?

Fr.Andrew

So, if I understand you correctly, your objection is not a person's homosexuality, as it is the lack of "self-control" they exhibit by not conforming to a lifestyle with which you approve?
I think I'd worry a lot more about the self-control of a teacher who's trying to stifle his normal urges and shove them into some dark corner of his mind where he can forget about them. It's not going to work...and he may explode one day.
But I digress.
I can't argue about your feelings with respect to who teaches your children--although I think you're short-changing them in the reality department, that's your business--but my point is that it ought to stop there. Keep it in your own world.
By waging public war on the "sin" of homosexuality, Dobson (and you) lend divine credence to an artificial divisiveness--you perpetuate a prejudice--you create an atmosphere of "us vs them"--which is the parent of bigotry.

Treacle Worshipper

Quote spurly:

people who are actively involved in a homosexual life-style

1) What do you consider to be "a homosexual life-style"?
2) I am bi, more on the lesbian side than "50/50". I am currently single and celibate. I am open to a relationship with either sex. Do you consider me a bad influence?

TW