Freethought & Rationalism Archive

christ-on-a-stick · 05-09-2003, 11:53 AM

If you don't consider someone a hypocrite who heads an organization that condemns an industry to which they are a huge "contributor" , I guess you just define hypocrisy a litle bit differently than some people. Whatever.

hezekiah jones · 05-09-2003, 12:10 PM

Couldn't resist.

Where's the section on gambling?
Reviewer: Joker's Wild from Wheaton, IL United States
I was hoping for some tips on how to double-down effectively at Blackjack, but all this book had was some junk about being nice and stuff.

From AudioFile
A distinguished list of readers, including Barbara Bush, Charlton Heston and Betty White, join William Bennett and his family in reading a fine selection of poems and stories whose morals teach laudable behavior.

this dude should lighten up
Reviewer: A reader from phoenix, arizona
If you want incredibly pompous, boring, overbearing, self righeous moralism, you've come to the right place! William Bennett goes around like he's a statue. This book is part of the far right's relentless campaign to discredit Mr. Bill and his ambitious wife. It's true that Clinton had feet of clay right up to his neck. But compared to the current President, he looks like Washington and Lincoln on a surfboard.

Reviews of, respectively, The Book of Virtues, Children's Book of Virtues, and The Death of Outrage: Bill Clinton and the Assault on American Ideals.

People who bought these doorstops also purchased some other wastes of perfectly good trees by [sic] Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity.

Jon Curry · 05-09-2003, 01:12 PM

Quote:

If you don't consider someone a hypocrite who heads an organization that condemns an industry to which they are a huge "contributor" , I guess you just define hypocrisy a litle bit differently than some people. Whatever.

Didn't you see what I wrote? It has not been shown that Empower America condemns the gambling industry. It has merely been shown that Jack Kemp opposes extension of the gambling industry. In point of fact, the article shows that Bennet does not speak out against gambling. Hello!

Grad Student Humanist · 05-09-2003, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Curry
Didn't you see what I wrote? It has not been shown that Empower America condemns the gambling industry. It has merely been shown that Jack Kemp opposes extension of the gambling industry. In point of fact, the article shows that Bennet does not speak out against gambling. Hello!

The article clearly states: "BENNETT AND HIS ORGANIZATION, EMPOWER AMERICA OPPOSE the extension of casino gambling in the states." Then it gives the quote by Kemp. According to the article, Bennett does oppose casino gambling. If you have any evidence which refutes the article then present it, otherwise you're wrong.

Bennett is a textbook hypocrite-- you know the kind Jesus talks about in the Bible, with a beam in his own eye while making millions lecturing people about the speck in theirs (and then apparantly dropping it all at the casino).

Another self-righteous Xtian hypocrite bites the dust!

christ-on-a-stick · 05-09-2003, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Didn't you see what I wrote? It has not been shown that Empower America condemns the gambling industry. It has merely been shown that Jack Kemp opposes extension of the gambling industry.

Actually...

Quote:

Empower America, one of Bennett's several shirt-pocket mass movements, officially opposes the spread of legalized gambling, and the Index of Leading Cultural Indicators, one of Bennett's cleverer PR conceits, includes "problem" gambling as a negative indicator of cultural health.

(article)

Quote:

From The Index of Leading Cultural Indicators 2001, a report released by William Bennett's Empower America:

"Disruptive behavior"

� Americans spent $638.6 billion on legal gambling games in 1997 and lost about $51 billion of that amount (which is more than the recording, video-game, movie, cruise-ship, spectator-sport, and theme-park business revenues combined).

� About one million Americans gamble on-line every day. About 4.5 million Americans have gambled online at least once.

� Approximately 2.5 million adult Americans are pathological gamblers; another 3 million have been classified as problem gamblers.

� According to the American Psychiatric Association, "pathological gambling is persistent and recurrent maladaptive gambling behavior -- that disrupts personal, family, or vocational pursuits."

I find it ludicrous that you insist he is not a hypocrite in this matter.. as if he would have had to shout from the rooftops "Gambling is immoral" and then snuck off for some blackjack to be guilty of mispresentation.

His group opposes the spread of legalized gambling. He has been a huge personal contributor to the gambling industry by any reasonable measure ($8mil ain't no chump change). His claims of having "broken even" are realistically unlikely to be truthful, although it's *possible* - but if he hasn't done anything wrong and doesn't have a problem, why does his statement on the Empower America website say

Quote:

"Nevertheless, I have done too much gambling, and this is not an example I wish to set. Therefore, my gambling days are over."

Sounds like he's been part of that "bad cultural health" after all.

Jon Curry · 05-10-2003, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Empower America, one of Bennett's several shirt-pocket mass movements, officially opposes the spread of legalized gambling, and the Index of Leading Cultural Indicators, one of Bennett's cleverer PR conceits, includes "problem" gambling as a negative indicator of cultural health.

Where is the proof of Kinsley's claim? He points out that Empower America claims that "problem" gambling is a negative indicator of cultural health. So what? Even people that don't think gambling is wrong would agree with that. Wouldn't you agree that "problem" gambling is a problem. Problem drinking is a negative indicator of cultural health, but this doesn't mean I think drinking is necessarily wrong and should be abolished. It's one thing to claim that gambling in excess is a problem. It's another thing to say that gambling itself is wrong. Maybe Empower America opposes the spread of legalized gambling, but you haven't shown that yet.

And again, I didn't say he did nothing wrong. I didn't say he doesn't have a problem. I said he's not a hypocrite. He doesn't criticize gambling. He views it as alcohol. Not wrong, but in excess it is a problem. This view is very consistent with what you quote from Empower America. He didn't think he was gambling in excess, but perhaps now he has become persuaded that he was, so he stopped doing it. This isn't hypocrisy. It's a mistake.

Grad Student Humanist · 05-10-2003, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Curry
And again, I didn't say he did nothing wrong. I didn't say he doesn't have a problem. I said he's not a hypocrite. He doesn't criticize gambling. He views it as alcohol. Not wrong, but in excess it is a problem. This view is very consistent with what you quote from Empower America. He didn't think he was gambling in excess, but perhaps now he has become persuaded that he was, so he stopped doing it. This isn't hypocrisy. It's a mistake.

Being a compulsive gambler and dropping $8 million while heading an organization which opposes casino gambling is the very definition of hypocrisy, whether you acknowledge it or not.

As I said before, it matters little to me if you think he's a hypocrite. What matters to me is that yet another self-righteous Xtian has discredited himself and will no longer get to play the role of morality police for the rest of us.

:boohoo:

Enlighten Me · 05-11-2003, 08:26 PM

Forget hypocrisy---what about greed? Asking $50,000 per "morality" speech, risking huge sums of money in the attempt to win huge sums of money.....If he really was seeking relaxation, he should play the solitaire game I play on the computer. It relaxes me, costs nothing, and wastes the same amount of time as a high stakes computer poker game does.

05-09-2003, 12:10 PM	#22
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	What the critics are saying Couldn't resist. Where's the section on gambling? Reviewer: Joker's Wild from Wheaton, IL United States I was hoping for some tips on how to double-down effectively at Blackjack, but all this book had was some junk about being nice and stuff. *From AudioFile* A distinguished list of readers, including Barbara Bush, Charlton Heston and Betty White, join William Bennett and his family in reading a fine selection of poems and stories whose morals teach laudable behavior. this dude should lighten up Reviewer: A reader from phoenix, arizona If you want incredibly pompous, boring, overbearing, self righeous moralism, you've come to the right place! William Bennett goes around like he's a statue. This book is part of the far right's relentless campaign to discredit Mr. Bill and his ambitious wife. It's true that Clinton had feet of clay right up to his neck. But compared to the current President, he looks like Washington and Lincoln on a surfboard. Reviews of, respectively, The Book of Virtues, Children's Book of Virtues, and The Death of Outrage: Bill Clinton and the Assault on American Ideals. People who bought these doorstops also purchased some other wastes of perfectly good trees by [sic] Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity.

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05-09-2003, 11:53 AM	#21
christ-on-a-stick Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Durango, Colorado Posts: 7,116	If you don't consider someone a hypocrite who heads an organization that condemns an industry to which they are a huge "contributor" , I guess you just define hypocrisy a litle bit differently than some people. Whatever.

05-11-2003, 08:26 PM	#28
Enlighten Me Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Ca. Posts: 1,109	Forget hypocrisy---what about greed? Asking $50,000 per "morality" speech, risking huge sums of money in the attempt to win huge sums of money.....If he really was seeking relaxation, he should play the solitaire game I play on the computer. It relaxes me, costs nothing, and wastes the same amount of time as a high stakes computer poker game does.

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