Blinn

Vanderzyden, read <a href="http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/may2001/989331026.Ev.r.html" target="_blank">this.</a>

Xixax

I have nothing to add to this discussion that has not been posted for your viewing already. If you cannot comprehend what is posted here the first time, why should I regurgitate the data in different expirements -over and over-, only to have it shot down by "I don't understand, therefore it must not be true."

Like I said, I don't post here much anymore because of the way that <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> causes headaches, and I'm normally too busy to worry about it in the first place. I no longer am seeking to find out whether or not evolution is fact, I'm learning about HOW it works and hoping to some day make contributions to our knowledge of it's mechanisms. At one point, I was on 'your side of the fence'. However, I didn't presume that my religious beliefs somehow override facts and evidence, instead I incorporated the two.

Belief in lack of evidence is faith, belief in spite of it is ignorance.

[ September 05, 2002: Message edited by: Xixax ]</p>

Lizard

VZ,

I came across this interesting slide show from a presentation on The Modern Synthesis. You can start <a href="http://faculty.uca.edu/~benw/biol4415/lecture3a/sld014.htm" target="_blank">here.</a>

Not being a geneticist myself, I'm not sure, but I think the following three images address some of your questions.







If I understand you, you're saying you don't believe translocation or fusion occur? Since you can actually see the chromosomes in two of these pictures, do you still not believe it?

The conversation is mostly over my head, and I don't pretend to be an expert, but it sounds to me as if you are talking out your... hat.

What is your point?

Lizard

Me again. The images I inserted did not come through on my iMac, for some reason. Did they come through on PCs? If not, you can go to the first URL and view them in the slideshow. They are slides 24 through 26.

[ September 05, 2002: Message edited by: Lizard ]</p>

wade-w

I don't see any images, Lizard. But then, while I am on a PC I'm not running windows so thats not a true test.

[ September 05, 2002: Message edited by: wadew ]</p>

K

Vanderzyden, you have already said that chromosome fusion happens and you've stated your agreement with the fact that chimps and humans have descended from a common ancestor. Why is this thread still going on?

KnightWhoSaysNi

No, I'm afraid not. I'm not sure where you read that from. As far as I can see, he firmly rejects both common ancestry and chromosome fusion. Hopefully we're getting somewhere though.

[ September 05, 2002: Message edited by: Nightshade ]</p>

K

Nightshade:

Prove it. I've seen THEORIES that he rejects the ideas, but they haven't been PROVEN. I think it's more likely that somebody hijacked his account.

It's just the conspiracy of biologists and other scientists that want us to believe that he rejects the ideas. There is no actual proof. I think all of his posts have been perfectly consistent with someone who agrees fully with evolution. Prove that they're not! It's just a theory that I provisionally disagree with.

Moderators - sorry, I'm not trying to get this moved to rants. I just had to vent a little.

Vanderzyden

Yes, the chromosome is what it is. But I think that some are seeing what they want to see, instead of what is actually there. To this point, I will post two graphics immediately following this reply.

But first, let me ask, partly in jest, "What in the world is wrong with you people?"

You seem hell-bent on either (1) proving me to be a liar (e.g. accusations of plagarism or intellectual dishonesty), or (2) proving that I am intent on showing the Darwinists to be liars. Why does anybody here have to be declared a liar in order for us to get at the truth? Similarly, why have I not seen anyone concede even one point I've made, or concede that their understanding is possibly wrong? It's like Hussein's Iraq or Stalin's Russia. For fear of being ostracized, no one can criticize the Darwinist leaders about fact that a big white elephant is roming the halls.

Let me be clear: I am not intent on proving anyone here to be a liar. I am certain beyond a reasonable doubt that the responsibility for much of the confusion and controversy lies with the teachers and cultural leaders. Os Guinness, in a lecture I attended at Stanford University, said that we are "a nation of Indians ruled by Swedes". Why? Because the powerful reject God, while the people are overwhelming found to be theists. And the powerful often use methodologically naturalistic science (not all science) to shout down any opponents.

OK, I know I can get going, so I'll stop.

My intention is to look closely at the influential stuff that is supposedly representing the facts. I want to determine if it withstands tests for validity and truth.


Vanderzyden

[ September 05, 2002: Message edited by: Vanderzyden ]</p>

Vibr8gKiwi

Why don't you drop this bias and just look where the data points.