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Old 01-31-2005, 08:42 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice
You are still not answering the question.
Will you be so kind as to answer my question?
The reality of war is that there will be extraneous people around most targets. We couldn't kill the factories without hitting a lot of people, also.

One of the cities also had a substantial military base in it.
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Old 01-31-2005, 08:56 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel
One of the cities also had a substantial military base in it.
Do you really think this is any justification at all. Some boys just wanted to play with a new bomb.

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Although Japanese peace feelers had been sent out as early as September 1944 (and [China's] Chiang Kai-shek had been approached regarding surrender possibilities in December 1944), the real effort to end the war began in the spring of 1945. This effort stressed the role of the Soviet Union ...

In mid-April [1945] the [US] Joint Intelligence Committee reported that Japanese leaders were looking for a way to modify the surrender terms to end the war. The State Department was convinced the Emperor was actively seeking a way to stop the fighting.
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In an article that finally appeared August 19, 1945, on the front pages of the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Times-Herald, Trohan revealed that on January 20, 1945, two days prior to his departure for the Yalta meeting with Stalin and Churchill, President Roosevelt received a 40-page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from high-level Japanese officials. (The complete text of Trohan's article is in the Winter 1985-86 Journal, pp. 508-512.)
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The authenticity of the Trohan article was never challenged by the White House or the State Department, and for very good reason. After General MacArthur returned from Korea in 1951, his neighbor in the Waldorf Towers, former President Herbert Hoover, took the Trohan article to General MacArthur and the latter confirmed its accuracy in every detail and without qualification.
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Old 01-31-2005, 09:09 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel
The reality of war is that there will be extraneous people around most targets. We couldn't kill the factories without hitting a lot of people, also.

One of the cities also had a substantial military base in it.
Loren when you say extraneous it makes them seem like excess to the country's needs or that they are extra people. I wonder if you would agree that the word your looking for is innocent. "The reality of war is that there will be innocent people around most targets." They will die because they were too close to the target. So now if you are arguing that civilian casualties are inevitable in war I would agree with you. If you continue to argue, however that Japanese civilians were less worthy than American civilians or Israeli lives are more important than Palestinians I will continue to think that you do not understand life.
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Old 01-31-2005, 10:03 PM   #144
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Israli's don't get any sympathy from me. If you are despotic country and oppressive nation, not to mention they love appartheid, and were one of the few countries to vote against sanctions. I have no sympathy for there crocodile tears of woe is me.

Any nation practicing appartheid deserves nothing but destruction.

who all supports this appartheid govt?
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Old 01-31-2005, 11:00 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Ravon
Well I do share your concern about the "wide spread slaughter" but perhaps you missed my point about Israel limiting the numbers of Palestinians who would wish to return home. Under your plan would they give up this asperation. And in return what do the Israelis give up or is it all on the Palestinians to accept whatever the Israelis give them. It is of course an unrealistic solution because neither side will offer that kind of unconditional surrender. :banghead:
The limitation that the Israelis have imposed on Palestinian immigration is very similar to what the British did to the Jews in the early 20th century. There were thousands of Jews trying to get into Israel/Palestine at the time and the British were trying to keep them out, knowing that more Jews would mean an imbalance in power and inevitable conflict.

You have to buy some wiggle room, as the Jews did 100 years ago. They snuck in thousands of their own people under cover of darkness, started kibbutzim, and eventually began to drive the Palestinians from their homeland. The Palestinians should attempt to do something similar. They have to fight smarter, not harder. Israel is not about to relinquish power. So, they should take it back little by little through the democratic process. What is Israel going to do when the Knesset is made up of 60% Palestinians?

Is this an easy task? By no means. But they will never succeed if they continue on their course of violence with eradication of Israel as their main tenet.
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Old 02-01-2005, 12:20 AM   #146
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Here You find a lot of answers:
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=96766
My reply # 103

The thread there is locked, but feel free to quote from there, (just put where, which post You are quoting from, because I think I answered in that thread some 20 times). Thank You.
If You happen to have any questions, which I doubt, because I think I say what I think quite clear there.

Henry
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Old 02-01-2005, 12:25 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel
The target was the war industry. Both cities had plenty of it.
When your position is utter hypocrisy, one strategy is to put forth bald-faced falsehoods.

Of course, you can cite nothing, and never do when it might have bearing on the Israelis.

James T. Cited an excellent source.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html

Quote:
In fact, almost all of the victims were civilians, and the United States Strategic Bombing Survey (issued in 1946) stated in its official report: "Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen as targets because of their concentration of activities and population."
I politely disagree with James T that Loren answered Maurice's question satisfactorily. You did, James T. But he didn't.


We've been down this road before many times with the savage firebombings of Dresden, Tokyo and etc. The U.S. has expressly targeted civilian populations to terrorize and annihilate.

But you will never see admission of this by Loren and the Zionists. That's because doing so legitimizes the Palestinians. The U.S. cannot condemn palestinian targeting of civilians when they have done the same thing, only on a vastly greater scale.

When we dropped the bombs on H. and N., the Japanesse were starving. We had completely destroyed their military. Here is a good assessment of the prelude to the bomb:

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On the night of March 9-10, 1945, a wave of 300 American bombers struck Tokyo, killing 100,000 people. Dropping nearly 1,700 tons of bombs, the war planes ravaged much of the capital city, completely burning out 16 square miles and destroying a quarter of a million structures. A million residents were left homeless.

On May 23, eleven weeks later, came the greatest air raid of the Pacific War, when 520 giant B-29 "Superfortress" bombers unleashed 4,500 tons of incendiary bombs on the heart of the already battered Japanese capital. Generating gale-force winds, the exploding incendiaries obliterated Tokyo's commercial center and railway yards, and consumed the Ginza entertainment district. Two days later, on May 25, a second strike of 502 "Superfortress" planes roared low over Tokyo, raining down some 4,000 tons of explosives. Together these two B-29 raids destroyed 56 square miles of the Japanese capital.

Even before the Hiroshima attack, American air force General Curtis LeMay boasted that American bombers were "driving them [Japanese] back to the stone age." Henry H. ("Hap") Arnold, commanding General of the Army air forces, declared in his 1949 memoirs: "It always appeared to us, atomic bomb or no atomic bomb, the Japanese were already on the verge of collapse." This was confirmed by former Japanese prime minister Fumimaro Konoye, who said: "Fundamentally, the thing that brought about the determination to make peace was the prolonged bombing by the B-29s."
What the Palestinians are doing, given that they are vastly out-gunned, pales in comparison to what the U.S. did when it had already won the war.
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Old 02-01-2005, 09:10 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry-Finland
Here You find a lot of answers:
I think the most likely result is missing.

There will be no Palestinian state, Israel will maintain oppressive military control of the hotbed of fanatical hate of Israel that they have created and maintained. The US will continue to support them.

This situation will continue for as long as Israel feels threatened by the potential (and real) actions of Palestinians. This period will be at least 40 years, even if they moderate their present stance now. Because they will, and probably rightly, consider that their are some Palestinian individuals alive now who see punishment of Israelis for wrongs done an obligation they will take to their grave.

Maybe 40 years is not long enough, the Simon Weisethal Centre has been active for how long?
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Old 02-01-2005, 09:35 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel
The reality of war is that there will be extraneous people around most targets. We couldn't kill the factories without hitting a lot of people, also.
And the justification for using A-bombs is... We couldn't remove Hussein from power in Iraq without attacking Baghdad. There were going to be casualties. That doesn't mean we should just say "Fuck it" and drop an atomic weapon.

Quote:
One of the cities also had a substantial military base in it.
Then why not use conventional weapons?
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Old 02-01-2005, 09:36 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Peoples Revolution
Israli's don't get any sympathy from me. If you are despotic country and oppressive nation, not to mention they love appartheid, and were one of the few countries to vote against sanctions. I have no sympathy for there crocodile tears of woe is me.

Any nation practicing appartheid deserves nothing but destruction.

who all supports this appartheid govt?
See, here's the problem with ignorance. Israel is not a despotic country. It is not an oppressive nation. Israelis do not love apartheid. Israel's Jewish, Christian and Muslim citizens, gay citizens, women, Black people and atheists enjoy freedom unparalleled in the region but israel is a country at war. A defensive war begun by its enemies 60 years ago and being waged unrelentingly, to this day. Israel must act appropriately towards its enemies. Of course that hasn't stoppedit frombuilding hospitals and universities for the Palestinians

On the other hand, every Arab and Muslim nation in the world (besides Turkey) is indeed despotic, oppressive and practice apartheid. Jordan for example is Judenrein. All these countries practice sexual apartheid to varying degrees and gay people must remain in the closet for fear of imprisonment or worse.

For some reason, none of this ever gets mentioned around here.
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