Bill Snedden

Sure. No problem, but you must also admit the same for "justice". So, it is indeed possible, then, that inviting serial killers and rapists into paradise could be as "just" as consigning nuns to the eternal barb-b-q.

That's the trouble with moral skepticism: it necessarily cuts both ways...

Regards,

Bill Snedden

Darkblade

This is because you theists convince yourselves that you are disgusting sinners. By the way, there are people of all walks of life that feel like they are disgusting and worthless, so your “interesting note” is false anyway.

iversong

Indeed! And agreed!

iversong

Ah, you are correct. I should have said, “You MAY never feel like you’re a sinner….”

Regardless of how we feel, if we don’t have God and His judgment, we will never know just how sinful we are. This is why people “convert.” It’s like a light comes on and we understand that we are sinners who need a redeemer. And it’s not humans that turn on the light, even though we do have morals and codes of ethics, its God. We can be moral and ethical as much as we want. But only the message of the Gospel will save us.

I don’t mean to keep saying this. But it’s too hard to explain what I mean without pointing to the source of my beliefs.

Jamie_L

iversong:

In reference to my original question of "Why would we be evil if left to our own devices."

You replied with a discussion of God's camp and Satan's camp. That actually doesn't completely answer my question. Are you implying that if left to our own devices we will automatically end up in Satan's camp? Or do we all begin in Satan's camp?

Jamie

Darkblade

I'm sorry, I just don't share your view, iversong. I've never seen anything to support it.

iversong

I can’t say with a definitive yes that every single person would be evil. But from the looks of it, in the book of Revelation God leaves humans to their own devices. And the result is evil.

We are either for God or against God. If we do not believe in Jesus as God, in His death and resurrection as atonement for sin, then we are not redeemed. Unfortunately, the unredeemed are in Satan’s camp.

As for a beginning, I don’t know. I would hate to think that a baby that dies is not saved. I don’t know exactly when God will hold a person accountable for their sins.

iversong

I see your point. And it is well taken. There really is no evidence that I can give you. I can only share my view.

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Friend,
An excellent question. However, I think the tone of your question indicates that you may harbor an understandable (yet false) assumption. Just to clarify...



God is love

in no way implies...

God does not judge



In fact God leveling judgement is agape (selfless) love.





Thoughts and comments welcomed,


Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Philosoft

Really? I can think of a thousand things God could do 'for our own good' that don't involve his judging us for failing to live up to unattainable standards.