Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 02-27-2003, 10:53 AM

Pataki Faces a Separation of Kosher and State

Quote:

Under current laws, which are almost a century old, state inspectors visit retailers of kosher food to see that meat and dairy products are processed in accordance with what the statutes call "Orthodox Hebrew religious requirements." That language has not only been rejected by the courts as unconstitutional but its reference to "Orthodox Hebrew" is so archaic that it drew merry chuckles from several Orthodox rabbis who attended Mr. Pataki's news conference in Manhattan.

The United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit ruled in May that the state's laws created an excessive entanglement between the state and religion. Without comment on Monday, the Supreme Court rejected appeals of that decision by Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver and Orthodox Jewish organizations.

So Pataki is going to rewrite the law to make it a consumer-expection trademark protection kind of thing. But Conservative Jews object, because it looks like it will enforce the Orthodox standards.

Quote:

Mr. Pataki acted with unusual speed, saying the Supreme Court action had put Jews who observe kashrut laws in a state of what one of his aides called "suspended animation," leaving them without confidence in the food they were buying.

In doing so, the governor was also responding to Orthodox Jews who had strongly supported him in the last election.

03-02-2003, 08:15 AM

More problems with orthodox judaism:

http://www.hgss.org.uk/ERUV.htm

I find it a bit ridiculous that first a believer is supposed to obey all these restrictions on the "sabbath" and then can get round them by means of a patently fictional extension of their home. Do they imagine god is deceived by this?

Evangelion · 03-02-2003, 10:48 AM

Heheh, those groovy Orthodox Jews. I have to admire their ingenuity.

Have you heard about their Sabbath telephones?

Evangelion · 03-02-2003, 10:59 AM

Check this out.

An excerpt:

Quote:

Old telephone switchboard systems have incandescent bulbs that light up when a telephone connection is made. If these bulbs are not needed for the connection itself then as far as the user is concerned he does not intend to turn them on but only to make the connection, and it is Rabbinically forbidden. If these bulbs are needed to make the connection then he violates the Biblical work of kindling a fire.

Today's modern switching system works by computers. Some systems still have LED lights that go on when a connection is made. These LED lights are cold lights and are not a violation of kindling a fire. They are also not forbidden as an information system (implement) because he does not see it from his home nor does it interest him in this capacity. Therefore, if he does not intend to make an implement it is not considered an implement. Furthermore, since there is no minimum time he must talk on the telephone, there is no minimum time the LED light must remain on and it is not in the category of making an implement.

The same is true for the LED lights on a modern telephone that light when the telephone is in the speaker mode and go off when the telephone is turned off. However, the tone mode of the telephone produces sounds to inform the user that the number was entered properly. This tone is desired and is a violation of the Rabbinical prohibition of producing sound on the Sabbath. It is, therefore, advisable that a doctor use a simple rotary phone unless he needs the tone to connect faster or automatically to the hospital or emergency services.

Wherever possible, a doctor should screen his calls on Sabbath by using an answering machine telling the caller that if this is an emergency that cannot wait until after Saturday to describe his symptoms and leave his telephone number. If the doctor feels this method will not work because the patient may judge incorrectly that he could wait, then perhaps he will find another way to do it.

As long as he talks without interruption over the telephone, he violates only one prohibition of producing sound on the Sabbath. If he stops to listen to the other party and then answers him, each time he stops to listen and starts talking again he violates this prohibition.

IOW, just keep talking and hope that the guy on the other end is able to hear you above the sound of his own voice!

03-05-2003, 09:52 AM

ROTFL

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03-02-2003, 08:15 AM	#2
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	More problems with orthodox judaism: http://www.hgss.org.uk/ERUV.htm I find it a bit ridiculous that first a believer is supposed to obey all these restrictions on the "sabbath" and then can get round them by means of a patently fictional extension of their home. Do they imagine god is deceived by this?

03-02-2003, 10:48 AM	#3
Evangelion Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Walsall, UK Posts: 1,490	Heheh, those groovy Orthodox Jews. I have to admire their ingenuity. Have you heard about their Sabbath telephones?

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