brighid

Vesica,

Sorry, I missed the header when you posted.

B

ShabbyChick

I "think" the basic reasoning behind this type of attitude is that leather generally comes from "food" animals and is a by-product of producing meat for human consumption. Fur on the other hand is likely farmed exclusively for the pelt so fur isn't a "by-product" like leather.

ShabbyChick

I guess I don't have as much a problem with this as you seem to. If fur is ok, why isn't a stuffed racoon mounted in someones den ok? Or a coyote pelt hung decoratively on the wall? There is generally no "need" to wear fur since in most climates (note I said generally and most) wool will suffice, so the wearing of fur for the most part is for fashion/aesthetic reasons. I just don't see that much of a difference between the aesthetics of fashion and aesthetics of decorating.


On a side note, do you realize how hard it is to type aesthetis several times correctly? My backspace key is wearing out!

Viti

LOL shabby...it is a tough one...I consistently mistype it. In fact, I mistype a lot of things.

I have a Zebra skin on my wall (another find...a friend found it rolled up and stuffed under a shelf in his closet, left there by a previous owner!)...from my understanding when one trophy hunts in Africa, the meat is given to the natives, then the skin is dressed and shipped to the US.

I guess my problem is disposing of the carcass...if I shoot a cougar to stuff and mount, the meat is wasted...with ranched fur animals the carcasses are used in pet foods...I dislike waste which is another reason I am pro fur I guess.

ShabbyChick

JESUS H CHRIST! I misfuckingspelled it again.

Thalia

Yes, I just want to clarify, that there are fair weather animal rights supporters, who buyleather, or only care about "cute" animals, etc, or who do it to rebel and as an excuse to be moralizing and obnoxious. But there are many people whom you will never realize support AR bc they are not moralizing and obnoxious.

People who have come to support some version of animal rights out of careful research, meditation, and consideration do consider many of the criticisms described here as hypocritical and annoying as well. And fish eating "vegetarians" are NOT vegetarians (no matter what they say).

I am a vegetarian who is interested in AR. And let me tell, you, PETA does not speak for the majority of us. There are many, more respectful, thoughtful, and effective animal welfare and rights organizations out there. Please don't assume that the people who get all the media attention, or the way they are portrayed by the media is representative.

I checked that it is "wrong" to use any product, but I do not think of it as "wrong". I think it is inconsistent with my goal of wanting to reduce the amount of suffering I am responsible for. I do not profess to know what the best way to achieve this goal is, but it seems to me that reducing my consumption of animal products is a good place to start. Other people may have different goals, or other ways of achieving it.

ShabbyChick

I see your point. I dislike waste, too. I'm all for re-use of old items. Garage saling/thrifting/curb crawling are some of my favorite pasttimes. I remake out of date clothing (and other items) made from nice/expensive/pretty fabrics into decorative items to sell, as well as remaking/reselling anything I find that I know I can find a buyer for.

When my brother kills an animal for it's pelt, etc. he leaves the carcass in the woods for scavengers. I don't see a problem with this, unless everyone decides they need a bunch of pelts and the left over carcasses become a nuisance, I guess. The majority of people I know wouldn't want a mounted racoon though, so I don't see this becoming a problem, I could be wrong though.

ShabbyChick

Just such a person, in this very forum, is responsible for my presence as a poster here. I created an account with the name "FishAreMeat" just to post in the thread created by this person. Not that I have any problem with anyone eating fish, I couldn't stand the crap he was saying about why fish aren't meat. :banghead:

Viti

We have a lot in common, too bad yourse so far away or we could go finding together! An you're probably right about the carcass and scavengers etc...trophy hunting just crosses my personal ickiness boundry.

brighid

I agree with you completely. There are always going to be people who simply go with whatever trend happens to be going on without giving much thought to that position. They are reactionary and that is the crowd organizations like PETA play to. It is unfortunate because the animal rights movement is a worthy one and it addresses many (IMO) important issues that benefit man and animal. I also find that some of the opposition focus on the radical groups and discredit the AR movement because of it.

I think both sides make valid points that need to be taken into consideration, and the final result should be a balance between the needs of man and the needs of our animal counterparts.

I do not believe in the wholesale slaughter on any living organism. I think society and industry need to be mindful of the role we play in this ecosystem of ours and how destructive our selfish behaviors often are to those who share our Earthly space. I think animal and plant life can be harvested and used wisely, as well as humanely.

Dialogue and accurate information is important, as well as a willingness to listen to both sides of the arguement (in any situation, not just this one.) I have not found that either side is entirely right, or entirely wrong and I don't think we should allow ourselves to get caught up in pro or anti propaganda.

Some ranches take steps to treat their animals as humanely as possible. I cannot speak to how this was before animal rights activists put pressure on the industry, but if human nature is any indicator (especially in business) I have my doubts about that. I know what I have researched and I do think important improvements have been made. I don't think the system (depending on the area) is entirely balanced yet and therefore objective dialogue needs to continue.

Brighid