Freethought & Rationalism Archive

BadBadBad · 07-03-2003, 01:34 PM

How old are you emotional, and are you man or woman? I'm 42.

Certainty. No, I don't have all the answers. I was agnostic, but pretty much atheist before I met my Southern Baptist wife. I used to go to church and come back with something. My step father died a couple of years ago, and he left a pretty despicable hell bound kind of legacy. I had some of those religous feelings to go along with it. Confronted with a heapin' dose of good ol' southern religious righteousness and hipocrisy, I had to go look it up. I read probably 10-15 books in the Bible. I read about the Bible on the Internet. That was it, atheist it is.

Death. Yes you're going to die. I've almost drowned, and I've been choked to unconsciousness. There's nothing to it. Just some panic, fear, and all the things going through your mind now all in a second, then lights out. That's it. It's going to happen to us all. You may experience that painful fear the last second of your life. Why not make it the only second you feel that fear?

Beyond death? What's the meaning of beyond death? It doesn't have any meaning. Can you comprehend infinite time? Can you comprehend infinitely large or small space? Infinite power or knowledge? Life without my body or brain? It's just completely incomprehensible. Don't let anyone else fool you. It's just as incomprehensible to them. It's like someone saying I know exactly how many beans it takes to fill up an infinitely large bottle. He's either ignorant or a liar.

You're right. We'll all find out one day. Well, maybe maybe not. If I'm right, we'll never find out. We'll have consciousness, then in a second, death. Just like being put out on the operating table. If you're dead, there's no conscious thought or awareness, and we'll never be aware of death. We'll only be aware of death a second before we die, and then nothing.

If there is life after death, then we may find out, but it will have nothing to do with our consciousness and awareness of reality we have now. I define myself to myself by what I see, hear, feel, touch, and think. How would you define your life and your inner self if someone were able to remove your brain along with your consciousness and support it outside your body for eternity? After death, you wouldn't even have that. Again it's incomprehensible. Having faced death I know that fear.

Facing life after death to me is an infinitely greater fear than death. Would you fear life after death if it was like your brain living out of your body with no sensory input for eternity? That's a pretty scary thought. Look at it this way. Maybe the Christians are right about after life, but they are wrong about it being heaven.

It's just completely incomprehensible. I'll stick with what I can comprehend. You breath. You live. You die, and there's peace in that. I don't have to worry about what I turn into for eternity. A mindless sheep in heaven? A pathetic tortured soul in Hell? A snail? No, not me. I'm comforted by the certainty that I'll just be dead.

DixieNurse · 07-03-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

from emotional:
Can you imagine a total nothingness? Can you imagine your entire consciousness switched off? Can you imagine the whole universe being nought? I'm so full of my "I" that imagining the "I" switched off is just unthinkable. Objectively the universe will keep on existing after I am gone, but subjectively, when the "I" is gone, when the subject is snuffed out, the universe will be no more. That's what scares me so.

Hi emotional!

Sounds to me like you either don't know WHAT you want, or you DO know what you want, and you need somebody to tell you that everything is going to be OK for you--

Personally, I hope these things are NOT that simplistic for you--and that you are not THAT desperate for answers today--this fear of death is irrational, hon, and not at all healthy...(a little worried about you.....)

Dixie

BadBadBad · 07-03-2003, 01:57 PM

BTW emotional,

I see you took Kidfury's advice on putting a closing statement on a debate and backing out.

I liked your last post on the original thread.

"Right. You lot go find a Christian to continue that debate with. I'm through with this shammed god-belief."

I won't presume to take any credit for that, but I was just wondering if IIDB will hand out a gold star if we get Magus55 to admit that? That would be one fine day!

Viti · 07-03-2003, 02:10 PM

emotional, this fear is irrational, especially if you fear the time before you were born. It sounds like a psychological disorder. Have you discussed this with a therapist?

Quote:

The treatment of death anxiety can stretch a psychologist into realms beyond the scientific. As patients struggle to adjust to the notion of their own death, or its possibility, their concerns often move into the realm of existential and spiritual considerations. They may wonder about the meaning of their lives, fear death itself, and beyond this, may wonder if there is a life after death. These are non-scientific concerns, but nevertheless, ones the psychologist must feel comfortable exploring. If the psychologist has not dealt with these issues, he or she will probably have little success in guiding patients through these times.

You may want to see of you can get a copy of Ernest Becker's Pulitzer-prize winning book on Otto Rank, The Denial of Death

emotional · 07-03-2003, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyShea
emotional, this fear is irrational, especially if you fear the time before you were born. It sounds like a psychological disorder. Have you discussed this with a therapist?

Yes, I have. It didn't help.

I feel myself being drawn towards belief in God and the afterlife once again... strongly and more strongly...

No-one is able to help me. People, being unable to cure me, keep referring me to therapy, but therapy hasn't cured me either. The only cure for fear of death I can think of right now is faith.

Viti · 07-03-2003, 03:48 PM

How long did you attend therapy sessions emotional? Nobody can cure you, you have to cure yourself and a therapist can help.

Try at least reading the book I recommended would you?

emotional · 07-03-2003, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyShea
How long did you attend therapy sessions emotional?

Years.

Quote:

Nobody can cure you, you have to cure yourself and a therapist can help.

Curing myself is what I'm trying to do by accepting a consoling faith. It's not the most rational cure but it's the best I have right now.

Quote:

Try at least reading the book I recommended would you?

I can't get hold of it.

Mageth · 07-03-2003, 03:53 PM

You might enjoy watching the movie Fearless.

As far as some possible reading, I would recommend some Joseph Campbell, say An Open Life.

Viti · 07-03-2003, 04:02 PM

Quote:

I can't get hold of it.

Does the Amazon link I provided not work for you?

Quote:

Curing myself is what I'm trying to do by accepting a consoling faith. It's not the most rational cure but it's the best I have right now

You don't believe in a deity or an afterlife you have said so...why waste your time trying to convince yourself that you do believe? Why not put that force of will into overcoming your fear?

emotional · 07-03-2003, 04:05 PM

Oh, it does, but it'll take about two months to reach me. Overseas shipping, you know...

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07-03-2003, 01:34 PM	#31
BadBadBad Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: WHERE GOD IS NOT!!!!! Posts: 4,338	How old are you emotional, and are you man or woman? I'm 42. Certainty. No, I don't have all the answers. I was agnostic, but pretty much atheist before I met my Southern Baptist wife. I used to go to church and come back with something. My step father died a couple of years ago, and he left a pretty despicable hell bound kind of legacy. I had some of those religous feelings to go along with it. Confronted with a heapin' dose of good ol' southern religious righteousness and hipocrisy, I had to go look it up. I read probably 10-15 books in the Bible. I read about the Bible on the Internet. That was it, atheist it is. Death. Yes you're going to die. I've almost drowned, and I've been choked to unconsciousness. There's nothing to it. Just some panic, fear, and all the things going through your mind now all in a second, then lights out. That's it. It's going to happen to us all. You may experience that painful fear the last second of your life. Why not make it the only second you feel that fear? Beyond death? What's the meaning of beyond death? It doesn't have any meaning. Can you comprehend infinite time? Can you comprehend infinitely large or small space? Infinite power or knowledge? Life without my body or brain? It's just completely incomprehensible. Don't let anyone else fool you. It's just as incomprehensible to them. It's like someone saying I know exactly how many beans it takes to fill up an infinitely large bottle. He's either ignorant or a liar. You're right. We'll all find out one day. Well, maybe maybe not. If I'm right, we'll never find out. We'll have consciousness, then in a second, death. Just like being put out on the operating table. If you're dead, there's no conscious thought or awareness, and we'll never be aware of death. We'll only be aware of death a second before we die, and then nothing. If there is life after death, then we may find out, but it will have nothing to do with our consciousness and awareness of reality we have now. I define myself to myself by what I see, hear, feel, touch, and think. How would you define your life and your inner self if someone were able to remove your brain along with your consciousness and support it outside your body for eternity? After death, you wouldn't even have that. Again it's incomprehensible. Having faced death I know that fear. Facing life after death to me is an infinitely greater fear than death. Would you fear life after death if it was like your brain living out of your body with no sensory input for eternity? That's a pretty scary thought. Look at it this way. Maybe the Christians are right about after life, but they are wrong about it being heaven. It's just completely incomprehensible. I'll stick with what I can comprehend. You breath. You live. You die, and there's peace in that. I don't have to worry about what I turn into for eternity. A mindless sheep in heaven? A pathetic tortured soul in Hell? A snail? No, not me. I'm comforted by the certainty that I'll just be dead.

07-03-2003, 01:57 PM	#33
BadBadBad Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: WHERE GOD IS NOT!!!!! Posts: 4,338	BTW emotional, I see you took Kidfury's advice on putting a closing statement on a debate and backing out. I liked your last post on the original thread. "Right. You lot go find a Christian to continue that debate with. I'm through with this shammed god-belief." I won't presume to take any credit for that, but I was just wondering if IIDB will hand out a gold star if we get Magus55 to admit that? That would be one fine day!

07-03-2003, 03:48 PM	#36
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	How long did you attend therapy sessions emotional? Nobody can cure you, you have to cure yourself and a therapist can help. Try at least reading the book I recommended would you?

07-03-2003, 03:53 PM	#38
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	You might enjoy watching the movie Fearless. As far as some possible reading, I would recommend some Joseph Campbell, say An Open Life.

07-03-2003, 04:05 PM	#40
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	Oh, it does, but it'll take about two months to reach me. Overseas shipping, you know...

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