Freethought & Rationalism Archive

TooBad · 07-08-2002, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ales:
 It is really sad that the Catholics still pray to this sadist deviant in Churches on a regular basis.

Shhh... Don't let Gemma hear you say that, or she'll hit you with her wimple.

Bree · 07-08-2002, 07:32 AM

I am always completely and utterly amazed that Christians dwell so much on the past, not to mention the lives of people long dead (most of which did not even exist - the Church made several of the saints up and are now in the process of decanonization) when they have so many problems in the here and now.

Forget about the fact that priests are now worshiping the Queen Spider (there again, a South Park reference) - we'd rather talk about old dead people.

Did you know, Gemma, that in the old days people used to rob the graves of these supposed saints and steal parts of their bodies to take back to their churches in order to help the church-going population grow? Jekyll has several books on the subject of relics - then you could study the real, concrete part of your saints!

Gemma Therese · 07-08-2002, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bree:
I am always completely and utterly amazed that Christians dwell so much on the past, not to mention the lives of people long (most of which did not even exist - the Church made several of the saints up and are now in the process of decanonization) when they have so many problems in the here and now.
_____________________________
My reply --

The Church didn't "make up" saints. Saints were revered by the local people and then canonized. (Case in point - St. Christopher). Other saints were considered Saints far before their canonization (i.e. Joan of Arc)
_____________________________

Did you know, Gemma, that in the old days people used to rob the graves of these supposed saints and steal parts of their bodies to take back to their churches in order to help the church-going population grow? Jekyll has several books on the subject of relics - then you could study the real, concrete part of your saints![/qb]

______________________________

Forgive my ignorance, I don't know if it is by Canon Law or tradition, but almost all Catholic altars have a first, second, or third class relic of one or more saints in them.

Gemma Therese

[ July 08, 2002: Message edited by: Gemma Therese ]

[ July 08, 2002: Message edited by: Gemma Therese ]

ohwilleke · 07-08-2002, 07:45 AM

I have a soft spot in my heart for Augustine because he, as a Christian leaving a pagan world, had to deal with many of the same issues that atheists face dealing with a Christian world (how to come to terms with a childhood in a different faith, issues like how much of the musical and cultural lore you grew up with to retain and how much to shed, the need to address the moral issues flowing from a basically metaphysical judgment about the nature of the divine, the need to assemble the great works written in support of his cause, the need to develop a community of like minded people, issues about science v. the old religion, etc.)

Certainly, his conclusions I disagree with, but I relate to what he was going through as a convert, before converting was popular.

Mageth · 07-08-2002, 07:47 AM

It's a known fact that, if you totalled up all the relic body parts of some of the saints (or Jeebus), many of them would be approximately the size of a 747.

Gemma Therese · 07-08-2002, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth:
It's a known fact that, if you totalled up all the relic body parts of some of the saints (or Jeebus), many of them would be approximately the size of a 747.

Wrong. Relics are anything assocaited with the saint -- bones, hair, clothing, prayer books used by the saint, etc.

Gemma Therese

Gemma Therese · 07-08-2002, 07:53 AM

Here you go -- may I see your sources?

<a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12734a.htm" target="_blank">http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12734a.htm</a>

Gemma Therese

Mageth · 07-08-2002, 08:16 AM

<a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12734a.htm" target="_blank">Here's</a> a source. Read section III (Abuses). A selection:

Nevertheless it remains true that many of the more ancient relics duly exhibited for veneration in the great sanctuaries of Christendom or even at Rome itself must now be pronounced to be either certainty spurious or open to grave suspicion.

Bree · 07-09-2002, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gemma Therese:
Here you go -- may I see your sources?

<a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12734a.htm" target="_blank">http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12734a.htm</a>

Gemma Therese

Can we please see a source that isn't biased? One based on history, not myth?

Mageth · 07-09-2002, 09:27 AM

Note, Bree, that her source is the source I used for "Abuses" in my above post.

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07-08-2002, 07:32 AM	#32
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	I am always completely and utterly amazed that Christians dwell so much on the past, not to mention the lives of people long dead (most of which did not even exist - the Church made several of the saints up and are now in the process of decanonization) when they have so many problems in the here and now. Forget about the fact that priests are now worshiping the Queen Spider (there again, a South Park reference) - we'd rather talk about old dead people. Did you know, Gemma, that in the old days people used to rob the graves of these supposed saints and steal parts of their bodies to take back to their churches in order to help the church-going population grow? Jekyll has several books on the subject of relics - then you could study the real, concrete part of your saints!

07-08-2002, 07:45 AM	#34
ohwilleke Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 4,834	I have a soft spot in my heart for Augustine because he, as a Christian leaving a pagan world, had to deal with many of the same issues that atheists face dealing with a Christian world (how to come to terms with a childhood in a different faith, issues like how much of the musical and cultural lore you grew up with to retain and how much to shed, the need to address the moral issues flowing from a basically metaphysical judgment about the nature of the divine, the need to assemble the great works written in support of his cause, the need to develop a community of like minded people, issues about science v. the old religion, etc.) Certainly, his conclusions I disagree with, but I relate to what he was going through as a convert, before converting was popular.

07-08-2002, 07:47 AM	#35
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	It's a known fact that, if you totalled up all the relic body parts of some of the saints (or Jeebus), many of them would be approximately the size of a 747.

07-08-2002, 07:53 AM	#37
Gemma Therese Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: new york Posts: 608	Here you go -- may I see your sources? <a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12734a.htm" target="_blank">http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12734a.htm</a> Gemma Therese

07-08-2002, 08:16 AM	#38
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	<a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12734a.htm" target="_blank">Here's</a> a source. Read section III (Abuses). A selection: Nevertheless it remains true that many of the more ancient relics duly exhibited for veneration in the great sanctuaries of Christendom or even at Rome itself must now be pronounced to be either certainty spurious or open to grave suspicion.

07-09-2002, 09:27 AM	#40
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Note, Bree, that her source is the source I used for "Abuses" in my above post.

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