Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Philosoft · 03-06-2003, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gemma Therese
We must pass through complexity to arrive at simplicity.

[Vork]Xanax, please.[/Vork]

WWSD · 03-06-2003, 04:40 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gemma Therese
St. Thomas Aquinas said we cannot understand God because God is utterly simple -- simple beyond all our conceptions. We study, we wrestle with theological problems, we strain out minds, but the aim is to draw near to the mystery of the One who is totally simple. We have to pass through the complexity so as to arrive at simplicity.

Sounds rather Taoist to me. Simple in what respect?

Those of you who are searching for God -- which is all of you -- remember this.

Oh, that's not incidiary. Guess what gemma, I am not searching for god. I did that, and I have moved on.

You will no doubt claim that my being here is evidence enough that I am still searching. To which I will say. Prove it.

I, too, was an athiest. And it bothered me greatly -- I just couldn't believe.

Interesting, my atheism doesn't bother me in the least. In fact, I feel quite liberated. I realized long ago that there was no thought police watching my every thought. I also realized that when I am alone, I am truely alone. And that is a fantastic and very conforting thought.

I knew something in my being believed in God, but I couldn't find it ...

I know that there is nothing in me that even remotely beleives in a diety. I've searched long and hard as well.

I now think that the most innate part of one's being is theistic, regardless of what that person recognizes or acknowledges.

Perhaps so. I do think that humans are hard wired to have religion. However, I don't think that this is evidence of a god or gods.

Don't lose hope.

Gemma Therese

I won't! Mainly because I'm not hoping that there's any god of any sort.

03-06-2003, 04:40 PM

A person only knows how fast everything around him spirals when he stops moving and look properly. Till then, he is trying to catch the truth under spiral of illusions ...

Jayjay · 03-06-2003, 04:45 PM

So Gemma was a "C.S. Lewis atheist"?

Gemma Therese · 03-06-2003, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim
A person only knows how fast everything around him spirals when he stops moving and look properly. Till then, he is trying to catch the truth under spiral of illusions ...

I wonder if there are 20 men alive in the world now, who see things as they really are. That would mean that there were 20 men who were free, who were not dominated or even influenced by any attachment to any created thing or to their own selves or to any gift of God, even to the highest, most pure of His graces. I don't believe there are 20 such men alive in the world. But there must be one or two. They are the ones who are holding everything together and keeping the universe from falling apart.

--Thomas Merton, from Seeds of Contemplation

Gemma Therese

Muad'Dib · 03-06-2003, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jayjay
So Gemma was a "C.S. Lewis atheist"?

It sounds like Gemma was an atheist in the same sense that many (not all) of us used to be Christian: she [dis]believed a certain way but it didn't sit well with her.

I don't know how useful it is to say that somebody was never a real atheist; it may be better to say they were an atheist that never completely adjusted to atheism.

I mean, what determines what category you fall into? Is it what you think, or how you feel about what you think?

WWSD · 03-06-2003, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gemma Therese
I wonder if there are 20 men alive in the world now, who see things as they really are. That would mean that there were 20 men who were free, who were not dominated or even influenced by any attachment to any created thing or to their own selves or to any gift of God, even to the highest, most pure of His graces. I don't believe there are 20 such men alive in the world. But there must be one or two. They are the ones who are holding everything together and keeping the universe from falling apart.

--Thomas Merton, from Seeds of Contemplation

Gemma Therese

Take the red pill, and I show you how deep the rabit hole really goes...

schu · 03-06-2003, 06:23 PM

GT has it almost right. God is simplicity alright. He simply doesn't exist. How much simpler can anything be.

Infidelettante · 03-06-2003, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by Gemma Therese
St. Thomas Aquinas said we cannot understand God because God is utterly simple -- simple beyond all our conceptions. We study, we wrestle with theological problems, we strain out minds, but the aim is to draw near to the mystery of the One who is totally simple. We have to pass through the complexity so as to arrive at simplicity.

Go directly to Zen. Do not stop at Go do not collect anything that complicates your life.

Those of you who are searching for God -- which is all of you -- remember this.

How interesting. When I stopped searching for God I found Goddess. But Goddess, to whom I am utterly devoted, is a metaphor. She is not a god. There are no gods. Search ends.

I, too, was an athiest. And it bothered me greatly -- I just couldn't believe. I knew something in my being believed in God, but I couldn't find it ... I now think that the most innate part of one's being is theistic, regardless of what that person recognizes or acknowledges.

There are many different ways of understanding the gods. It is so like a theist to say theism is the only way.

Don't lose hope.

Gemma Therese

God may indeed be simplicity but theism is not. It is a complex belief system that some people devote their entire lives to understanding. People like St. Thomas. Aquinas.

JT

christ-on-a-stick · 03-06-2003, 06:47 PM

GT,

I truly don't understand how/why you expect people here to take you seriously when you have constantly

A) insulted people
B) refused to answer direct questions
C) posted one-line "non-answers" or other people's quotes in response to questions or comments, and then refused to elaborate when asked.

Do you really believe that you are being a good witness for Christ by doing these things?

As to this thread... JenD wrote

Quote:

It would be even simpler just to take the universe at face value. To go with the simplest and most logical explanations of why the universe is the way it is. To accept that the universe is bound by natural laws that don't need to be bent or re-phrased in order to fit somebody else's 2000 year old ideas of how things work (or what we now know they really meant by it, now that we know how it really works).

Makes sense to me.

03-06-2003, 04:40 PM	#12
WWSD Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Albucrazy, New Mexico Posts: 1,425	Re: Simplicity is the key [QUOTE]Originally posted by Gemma Therese St. Thomas Aquinas said we cannot understand God because God is utterly simple -- simple beyond all our conceptions. We study, we wrestle with theological problems, we strain out minds, but the aim is to draw near to the mystery of the One who is totally simple. We have to pass through the complexity so as to arrive at simplicity. Sounds rather Taoist to me. Simple in what respect? Those of you who are searching for God -- which is all of you -- remember this. Oh, that's not incidiary. Guess what gemma, I am not searching for god. I did that, and I have moved on. You will no doubt claim that my being here is evidence enough that I am still searching. To which I will say. Prove it. I, too, was an athiest. And it bothered me greatly -- I just couldn't believe. Interesting, my atheism doesn't bother me in the least. In fact, I feel quite liberated. I realized long ago that there was no thought police watching my every thought. I also realized that when I am alone, I am truely alone. And that is a fantastic and very conforting thought. I knew something in my being believed in God, but I couldn't find it ... I know that there is nothing in me that even remotely beleives in a diety. I've searched long and hard as well. I now think that the most innate part of one's being is theistic, regardless of what that person recognizes or acknowledges. Perhaps so. I do think that humans are hard wired to have religion. However, I don't think that this is evidence of a god or gods. Don't lose hope. Gemma Therese I won't! Mainly because I'm not hoping that there's any god of any sort.

03-06-2003, 06:34 PM	#19
Infidelettante Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Deep South Posts: 889	Re: Simplicity is the key Originally posted by Gemma Therese St. Thomas Aquinas said we cannot understand God because God is utterly simple -- simple beyond all our conceptions. We study, we wrestle with theological problems, we strain out minds, but the aim is to draw near to the mystery of the One who is totally simple. We have to pass through the complexity so as to arrive at simplicity. Go directly to Zen. Do not stop at Go do not collect anything that complicates your life. Those of you who are searching for God -- which is all of you -- remember this. How interesting. When I stopped searching for God I found Goddess. But Goddess, to whom I am utterly devoted, is a metaphor. She is not a god. There are no gods. Search ends. I, too, was an athiest. And it bothered me greatly -- I just couldn't believe. I knew something in my being believed in God, but I couldn't find it ... I now think that the most innate part of one's being is theistic, regardless of what that person recognizes or acknowledges. There are many different ways of understanding the gods. It is so like a theist to say theism is the only way. Don't lose hope. Gemma Therese God may indeed be simplicity but theism is not. It is a complex belief system that some people devote their entire lives to understanding. People like St. Thomas. Aquinas. JT

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03-06-2003, 04:40 PM	#13
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	A person only knows how fast everything around him spirals when he stops moving and look properly. Till then, he is trying to catch the truth under spiral of illusions ...

03-06-2003, 04:45 PM	#14
Jayjay Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 6,261	So Gemma was a "C.S. Lewis atheist"?

03-06-2003, 06:23 PM	#18
schu Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 707	GT has it almost right. God is simplicity alright. He simply doesn't exist. How much simpler can anything be.

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