Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Godless Dave · 05-17-2002, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fastfalcon:
Actually, my point is that we need to look at how much does Jesus had to suffer for us. You know, he suffered far more pain than anybody on earth, not just because of his crucifixion, but at the fact the he put all people's sins on His shoulders and He also knew who was going to perish in hell. that may be far more pain than we can imagine and you have the cheek to dismiss that!

Only if it were true. Your belief that it's true is a religious belief - you can't prove it to us with evidence. I don't believe it, so it has no meaning to me.

scombrid · 05-17-2002, 08:02 AM

Would a few hours on the cross and 36hrs in the ground even be noticed by an eternal being?

On the scale of eternity, what percentage of God's life was spent suffering? Let us see. Any real number divided by infinity is infinitesimally small. Big deal, 36hrs/infinity.

Likewise would the all powerful infinite God be "burdened" with finite man's flaws? Again, proportional suffering principle. Some finite amount of sin/infinity approaches zero burden.

Caveat:
If your god isn't infinite I have no point and all Christianity is wrong in it's god concept.

Darwin's Finch · 05-17-2002, 08:02 AM

Fastfalcon: "You know, he suffered far more pain than anybody on earth, not just because of his crucifixion, but at the fact that he put all people's sins on his shoulders and he also know who was going to perish in hell."

Mere assertions. Now kindly answer the question I posed in the previous post. Does the Christian story make sense on any rational level? Is it really the case that a loving, omnipotent god would concoct such a ludicrous scenario for human salvation? Or is it that certain people (most notably Saul/Paul), who seem to have been interesting psychological cases, to say the least, came up with this salvation myth within the context of a culture and period in history in which such myths were common currency? Blood cults flourished in those days; Christianity is hardly unique in that respect. Think, Falcon! The whole story stinks of human invention.

[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: Darwin's Finch ]

scombrid · 05-17-2002, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anunnaki:
Stop responding to Fastfsalcon.

While I was on the toilet a few minutes ago I had a revelation of my own. I heard a little voice saying "Anunnaki and others,Fastfalcon is not reading or even thinking about anything you write. You are all wasting your time and Fastfalcon has already left your world and has cut all ties to reality".

I`m gonna listen to that little voice and do what it said.

<< edited because that little voice spelled my name wrong. D`oh! >>

[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: Anunnaki ]

If you're hearing voices while on the toilet, you might be straining too hard. Eat more fiber before you have an aneurism or get hemoroids.

Fastfalcon · 05-17-2002, 08:24 AM

From my limited human view, God had to take on a human form so that He could dwell among men (it's written in the Bible somwhere). you see, He sent his only son to die for us, not to condemn us, but to save us (from hell and judgement). Now to answer the question that you all are asking, God allowed sin in the world because he wanted to show us how evil men can be without God (look at Hitler). add that to the fact that the Bible said that if it wasn't for God, no flesh would be alive(Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.), so he is restraining evil, keeping it from going out of control.

enrious · 05-17-2002, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fastfalcon:
From my limited human view, God had to take on a human form so that He could dwell among men (it's written in the Bible somwhere). you see, He sent his only son to die for us, not to condemn us, but to save us (from hell and judgement). Now to answer the question that you all are asking, God allowed sin in the world because he wanted to show us how evil men can be without God (look at Hitler). add that to the fact that the Bible said that if it wasn't for God, no flesh would be alive(Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.), so he is restraining evil, keeping it from going out of control.

Why?

Are you saying God couldn't understand the human condition without being human?

Are you saying that He couldn't fogive us without assuming human form?

hezekiah jones · 05-17-2002, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fastfalcon:
(look at Hitler)

Yes, look at Hitler. He made many many people suffer a hell of a lot more than the jeez ever suffered.

brighid · 05-17-2002, 08:32 AM

Hitler was just doing what the Bible taught him to do and the Third Reich truly believed it Hitler was sent to them by God and that they were doing God�s work. Do some research honey. Hitler was an evil son of a bitch, but he learned from the best � your God.

If God is all powerful, all knowing, the Creator of All the Universe, etc. he would not need to send his only son � which really isn�t his only son because he sent Himself to be sacrificed to Himself in order to save us from Himself, which He, Himself had complete control over and knowledge over before any life form came into existence.

I realize that the Church folk you associate with are presenting you with all these �God is love, kind, and perfect� arguments. They are comforting to believe and on the surface they even seem truthful and plausible. However, the farther you dig underneath the surface the more problems arise with this idea. Address the questions answered and formulate your OWN thoughts, not simply give us the typical cookie cutter responses you have been programmed to regurgitate upon questioning. I know it�s going to be difficult to put that stuff aside, but please, please try.

The Christian argument is ridiculous, utter and completely ridiculous and has no basis in reality and no logical or reasonable foundation.

Why do you want and need to believe what they tell you?

Brighid

Fastfalcon · 05-17-2002, 08:35 AM

'cause otherwise, life is meaningless without God. we would just be little people who may or may not be able to get off this little overcrowded planet.

enrious · 05-17-2002, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fastfalcon:
'cause otherwise, life is meaningless without God. we would just be little people who may or may not be able to get off this little overcrowded planet.

If that's the best you can manage, I suggest you go back to Remedial Argument or Logic 101.

05-17-2002, 08:02 AM	#23
Darwin's Finch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Gardnerville, NV Posts: 666	Fastfalcon: "You know, he suffered far more pain than anybody on earth, not just because of his crucifixion, but at the fact that he put all people's sins on his shoulders and he also know who was going to perish in hell." Mere assertions. Now kindly answer the question I posed in the previous post. Does the Christian story make sense on any rational level? Is it really the case that a loving, omnipotent god would concoct such a ludicrous scenario for human salvation? Or is it that certain people (most notably Saul/Paul), who seem to have been interesting psychological cases, to say the least, came up with this salvation myth within the context of a culture and period in history in which such myths were common currency? Blood cults flourished in those days; Christianity is hardly unique in that respect. Think, Falcon! The whole story stinks of human invention. [ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: Darwin's Finch ]</p>

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05-17-2002, 08:02 AM	#22
scombrid Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Central Florida Posts: 2,759	Would a few hours on the cross and 36hrs in the ground even be noticed by an eternal being? On the scale of eternity, what percentage of God's life was spent suffering? Let us see. Any real number divided by infinity is infinitesimally small. Big deal, 36hrs/infinity. Likewise would the all powerful infinite God be "burdened" with finite man's flaws? Again, proportional suffering principle. Some finite amount of sin/infinity approaches zero burden. Caveat: If your god isn't infinite I have no point and all Christianity is wrong in it's god concept.

05-17-2002, 08:24 AM	#25
Fastfalcon Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bermuda Posts: 114	From my limited human view, God had to take on a human form so that He could dwell among men (it's written in the Bible somwhere). you see, He sent his only son to die for us, not to condemn us, but to save us (from hell and judgement). Now to answer the question that you all are asking, God allowed sin in the world because he wanted to show us how evil men can be without God (look at Hitler). add that to the fact that the Bible said that if it wasn't for God, no flesh would be alive(Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.), so he is restraining evil, keeping it from going out of control.

05-17-2002, 08:32 AM	#28
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	Hitler was just doing what the Bible taught him to do and the Third Reich truly believed it Hitler was sent to them by God and that they were doing God�s work. Do some research honey. Hitler was an evil son of a bitch, but he learned from the best � your God. If God is all powerful, all knowing, the Creator of All the Universe, etc. he would not need to send his only son � which really isn�t his only son because he sent Himself to be sacrificed to Himself in order to save us from Himself, which He, Himself had complete control over and knowledge over before any life form came into existence. I realize that the Church folk you associate with are presenting you with all these �God is love, kind, and perfect� arguments. They are comforting to believe and on the surface they even seem truthful and plausible. However, the farther you dig underneath the surface the more problems arise with this idea. Address the questions answered and formulate your OWN thoughts, not simply give us the typical cookie cutter responses you have been programmed to regurgitate upon questioning. I know it�s going to be difficult to put that stuff aside, but please, please try. The Christian argument is ridiculous, utter and completely ridiculous and has no basis in reality and no logical or reasonable foundation. Why do you want and need to believe what they tell you? Brighid

05-17-2002, 08:35 AM	#29
Fastfalcon Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bermuda Posts: 114	'cause otherwise, life is meaningless without God. we would just be little people who may or may not be able to get off this little overcrowded planet.

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