Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Optional · 03-27-2003, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Sorry, but I had a double dose of Iraqi propaganda in 1990-91: just about everything eventually verifiable claimed by the Iraqi regime turned out to be......false. Sometimes laughably so. Right down to S Hussein's claim of having won a "great victory" in the war.

Ya know it's interesting, I was thinking of this the other day. I do remember that time, and I do remember the outragious propoganda attempts by Saddam, the transparent lies and so on.

I remember thinking how pitiful it was ... how we were a nation that had learned to deal with slicker and more convincing propoganda every time we turned on the TV and somebody tried to convince us that we DESPERATELY needed to buy NEW IMPROVED X!!! I remember thinking he obviosuly had little understanding of how we think, and really taking a somewhat perverse pride in the fact that we as participants in the commercialized world had been inoculated against propoganda of ANY kind, that we had had that old maxim 'if it's too good to be true it probably is' drummed into us hard, that we would NEVER fall for propoganda.

And then this war comes along. And there is absolutely nothing BUT propoganda. Except this time, it's coming from OUR SIDE. Their side too, of course, but it's our propoganda I'm forced to listen to. And much to my chagrin, PEOPLE ARE BUYING IT, hook line and sinker... Obviously I was completely and totally wrong in thinking propoganda would never work on US. *sigh*

It's gotten so bad that I simply refuse to believe ANYTHING I hear on the news until I can come here and similar places and see it chewed over by a multitude of intelligent people. It's all just really, really depressing...

-me

ex-idaho · 03-27-2003, 12:29 PM

Because of the systematic destruction of the truth coming out of thei Whitehouse I am now far more cynical of my government than ever before. If the Clinton Whitehouse were making these same claims I would have approached it with doubt but I generally dismiss anything coming out the Bush Whitehouse until it is documented by numerous other sources.

Contrary to what so many on the right would have us believe this is not because I am anti-Bush. I admit that I do not like the man and I do not respect him or his adminstration. The simple fact of the matter is he has been caught lying (or more precisely paying others to lie for him, ie Ari Fliescher) so many times that I cannot help to doubt every word out of his mouth.

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ · 03-27-2003, 12:50 PM

3000 gas masks and antidote for nerve gas? OH MY FUCKING GOD!!!!

Who cares if they have any or not--this is literally meaningless if they do have them. The US has them, Kuwait has them, etc. Not all of the nations that have them also have chemical weapons. Providing a potential means to defend against them is a legitimate, legal, and innocuous action.

Mr. Superbad · 03-27-2003, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by leonarde
And how, praytell, do you know it was the commanding officer of the 51st Division? Had you met him before? Sorry, but I had a double dose of Iraqi propaganda in 1990-91: just about everything eventually verifiable claimed by the Iraqi regime turned out to be......false. Sometimes laughably so. Right down to S Hussein's claim of having won a "great victory" in the war.
Cheers!

I would assume they know who the commander is, seeing as Saddam mentioned him by name in his last video tape. I guess it could have been an imposter, but did the 51st surrender? No. Pentagon claimed they did, Iraq claimed they didn't. Iraq turned out to be right.

Mr. Superbad · 03-27-2003, 01:01 PM

BTW, Why would 175 Iraqi soldiers need 3000 chemical suits?

leonarde · 03-27-2003, 01:26 PM

Previously posted:

Quote:

I would assume they know who the commander is,

Who is "they"?

Quote:

[...]seeing as Saddam mentioned him by name in his last video tape.

What if his name is the Arabic equivalent of "Smith" or "Jones"?

Quote:

I guess it could have been an imposter,

You merely guess????

Quote:

but did the 51st surrender? No.

For the second time: how (independent of Iraqi claims) do you know that????

Quote:

Pentagon claimed they did, Iraq claimed they didn't.

And how do you determine which was telling the truth? Did you happen, prior to the war, to know where the 51st Division was deployed so that a rundown of the disposition of the battle field would give you a good idea whether they had surrendered or not????

Quote:

Iraq turned out to be right.

Highly unlikely, given the lies they told in the last war.

Cheers!

ex-idaho · 03-27-2003, 01:32 PM

Leonarde the Pentagon openly admits that the 51st did not surrender only the commander or atleast who they believe to be the commander. The 8000 troops that we believe were assigned to the 51st were said to have scattered and are likely involved in the continued raids and scattered attacks on our supply line.

You get way to defensive when anyone questions your post. Please take a valium and try to remeber that we are all friends here.

Yellum Notnef · 03-27-2003, 01:43 PM

Is leonarde the same guy who last year tried to prove to us that the Shroud of Turin was real?

Mr. Superbad · 03-27-2003, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by leonarde
For the second time: how (independent of Iraqi claims) do you know that????

The Pentagon said so.

Quote:

American officials were quick to announce the surrender of the commander of the 51st Iraqi Division. Today, they discovered that the "commander" was actually a junior officer masquerading as a higher-up in an attempt to win better treatment.

ex-idaho · 03-27-2003, 02:13 PM

Leonarde just what would it take for you doubt the current administration and its motives?

Just in the last 7 days we have seen numerous bits of disinformation (lies) exposed and wriiten off by our spineless media as mistakes or incomplete information.

Are you so committed to Bush and the Republicans out of principle or like so many others on the right because of a major distaste for the last administration?

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03-27-2003, 12:29 PM	#32
ex-idaho Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Spudtopia, ID Posts: 5,315	Because of the systematic destruction of the truth coming out of thei Whitehouse I am now far more cynical of my government than ever before. If the Clinton Whitehouse were making these same claims I would have approached it with doubt but I generally dismiss anything coming out the Bush Whitehouse until it is documented by numerous other sources. Contrary to what so many on the right would have us believe this is not because I am anti-Bush. I admit that I do not like the man and I do not respect him or his adminstration. The simple fact of the matter is he has been caught lying (or more precisely paying others to lie for him, ie Ari Fliescher) so many times that I cannot help to doubt every word out of his mouth.

03-27-2003, 12:50 PM	#33
Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Heaven Posts: 6,980	3000 gas masks and antidote for nerve gas? OH MY FUCKING GOD!!!! Who cares if they have any or not--this is literally meaningless if they do have them. The US has them, Kuwait has them, etc. Not all of the nations that have them also have chemical weapons. Providing a potential means to defend against them is a legitimate, legal, and innocuous action.

03-27-2003, 01:01 PM	#35
Mr. Superbad Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Well fortified mountain bunker Posts: 3,567	BTW, Why would 175 Iraqi soldiers need 3000 chemical suits?

03-27-2003, 01:32 PM	#37
ex-idaho Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Spudtopia, ID Posts: 5,315	Leonarde the Pentagon openly admits that the 51st did not surrender only the commander or atleast who they believe to be the commander. The 8000 troops that we believe were assigned to the 51st were said to have scattered and are likely involved in the continued raids and scattered attacks on our supply line. You get way to defensive when anyone questions your post. Please take a valium and try to remeber that we are all friends here.

03-27-2003, 01:43 PM	#38
Yellum Notnef Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Gone Posts: 4,676	Is leonarde the same guy who last year tried to prove to us that the Shroud of Turin was real?

03-27-2003, 02:13 PM	#40
ex-idaho Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Spudtopia, ID Posts: 5,315	Leonarde just what would it take for you doubt the current administration and its motives? Just in the last 7 days we have seen numerous bits of disinformation (lies) exposed and wriiten off by our spineless media as mistakes or incomplete information. Are you so committed to Bush and the Republicans out of principle or like so many others on the right because of a major distaste for the last administration?

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