Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mad Kally · 10-02-2002, 01:02 PM

Quote:

When I do good
I feel good
When I do bad
I feel bad
and that is my religion

--Abe Lincoln

NOGO · 10-02-2002, 01:24 PM

Quote:

sin rests upon the idea that God exists and that human beings fall short of the glory of God,

Another disappointed Father ... big deal.

God or no God, sin is a sordid concept invented by those who wish to control people's minds. Since atheists are usually people who have freed themselves of religious mental controls ... atheists cannot sin.

Others may call it sin but the atheist is unmoved.

Tom Sawyer · 10-02-2002, 01:29 PM

A lot of xians would say that not believing in God is a sin, so technically, if you're an atheist, you are, by definition, sinning.

We don't sin in the sense that we break some God's laws, but we can sin in the sense that we break moral laws. Morality is largely defined by the society that we live in and if we break the moral laws of that society, we can be considered sinners, even though we don't believe there's any deity behind those moral laws.

crownboy · 10-02-2002, 05:27 PM

I don't think an atheist can sin.

Sin denotes displeasing a deity, so how can you displease something you don't believe in?

Dark Jedi · 10-02-2002, 07:48 PM

Since no one else has taken the bait:

Is that an offer, Bree?

Starboy · 10-02-2002, 08:15 PM

The question was: Can atheists sin?

The answer: Yes they can, but nobody does it better than a Christian.

Starboy

[ October 02, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]</p>

Defiant Heretic · 10-02-2002, 11:49 PM

Judging from the type of things that qualify as a sin: Yes we can, but unlike Christians we have the good sense to enjoy doing it.

10-03-2002, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Defiant Heretic:
<strong>Judging from the type of things that qualify as a sin: Yes we can, but unlike Christians we have the good sense to enjoy doing it.

</strong>

That is why it is nice to be a Catholic for whom the forbidden fruit is sweeter than wine and forgiven by probate so they can check it all out.

spurly · 03-22-2003, 04:05 PM

My definition of sin is totally different than anything I have seen posted on this thread.

Sin is not breaking a law or guideline. Sin is much deeper than that. Sin is doing something that goes contrary to God's nature and character. Sin is doing anything that does not line up with who God is.

For example. God is a giver of life, so taking the life of another person would be a sin.

God is a God who is True. So deception and dishonesty of any kind is a sin.

God is a God who is Holy and pure. So impurity of any kind - whether impurity of heart, mind, or actions, is a sin.

God is a God who is loving. So acting in an unloving manner is a sin.

Can atheists act agains the character and nature of a God whose existence they deny? Yes. Just like theists can do. When they go against that absolute standard they are sinning, even if they don't want to admit that the standard of God's nature and character exists.

Kevin

Queen of Swords · 03-22-2003, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by spurly
For example. God is a giver of life, so taking the life of another person would be a sin.

Unless God orders you to do so in the Old Testament, in which case it's OK to kill your child, kill pregnant women, kill male infants and so on.

God is a God who is True. So deception and dishonesty of any kind is a sin.

Unless you're Abraham or Isaac, in which case it's OK to say that your wife is your sister instead. I wonder if it would be a sin, if you were in a World War II situation and there are Jews hiding in your attic, to practice deception and dishonesty and tell the Nazis that you weren't hiding anyone.

When they go against that absolute standard they are sinning, even if they don't want to admit that the standard of God's nature and character exists.

Since the bible itself doesn't portray a particularly reasonable, admirable, consistent or morally upright deity, I can't see any such standard.

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10-02-2002, 01:29 PM	#13
Tom Sawyer Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto, eh Posts: 42,293	A lot of xians would say that not believing in God is a sin, so technically, if you're an atheist, you are, by definition, sinning. We don't sin in the sense that we break some God's laws, but we can sin in the sense that we break moral laws. Morality is largely defined by the society that we live in and if we break the moral laws of that society, we can be considered sinners, even though we don't believe there's any deity behind those moral laws.

10-02-2002, 05:27 PM	#14
crownboy Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NYC, New York Posts: 114	I don't think an atheist can sin. Sin denotes displeasing a deity, so how can you displease something you don't believe in?

10-02-2002, 07:48 PM	#15
Dark Jedi Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Afghanistan Posts: 4,666	Since no one else has taken the bait: Is that an offer, Bree?

10-02-2002, 08:15 PM	#16
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	The question was: Can atheists sin? The answer: Yes they can, but nobody does it better than a Christian. Starboy [ October 02, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]</p>

10-02-2002, 11:49 PM	#17
Defiant Heretic Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,288	Judging from the type of things that qualify as a sin: Yes we can, but unlike Christians we have the good sense to enjoy doing it.

03-22-2003, 04:05 PM	#19
spurly Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 710	My definition of sin is totally different than anything I have seen posted on this thread. Sin is not breaking a law or guideline. Sin is much deeper than that. Sin is doing something that goes contrary to God's nature and character. Sin is doing anything that does not line up with who God is. For example. God is a giver of life, so taking the life of another person would be a sin. God is a God who is True. So deception and dishonesty of any kind is a sin. God is a God who is Holy and pure. So impurity of any kind - whether impurity of heart, mind, or actions, is a sin. God is a God who is loving. So acting in an unloving manner is a sin. Can atheists act agains the character and nature of a God whose existence they deny? Yes. Just like theists can do. When they go against that absolute standard they are sinning, even if they don't want to admit that the standard of God's nature and character exists. Kevin

03-22-2003, 04:23 PM	#20
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	Originally posted by spurly For example. God is a giver of life, so taking the life of another person would be a sin. Unless God orders you to do so in the Old Testament, in which case it's OK to kill your child, kill pregnant women, kill male infants and so on. God is a God who is True. So deception and dishonesty of any kind is a sin. Unless you're Abraham or Isaac, in which case it's OK to say that your wife is your sister instead. I wonder if it would be a sin, if you were in a World War II situation and there are Jews hiding in your attic, to practice deception and dishonesty and tell the Nazis that you weren't hiding anyone. When they go against that absolute standard they are sinning, even if they don't want to admit that the standard of God's nature and character exists. Since the bible itself doesn't portray a particularly reasonable, admirable, consistent or morally upright deity, I can't see any such standard.

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