Corona688

Whee, watch him dance! You just evaded his entire point... And that pretty strawman; It doesn't take a position of total skepticism to everything to doubt astrology! I'll repeat the question you somehow missed, then: WHAT MAKES YOU THINK ASTROLOGY IS ANY DIFFERENT FROM COINCIDENCE?

Tenek

Now you may find it inconceivable or at the very least a bit unlikely that the relative positions of the planets and the stars may have some special deep significance or meaning that exclusively applies to only you but let me give you my assurance that these forecasts and predictions are all based on solid scientific documented evidence so you would have to be some kind of moron not to realize that every single one of them is absolutely true... -Weird Al, 'That's Your Horoscope For Today'

I'm also curious to know exactly what is taken into account in astrology. Since nobody can agree on the definition of a planet, using 9 'planets' seems rather arbitrary. Has the significance of Pluto been pre-ordained since before the dawn of time?

Volker.Doormann

Knowledge

If I'm right, then there is a capitulation in scientific arguments, only flat personal things to the gallery.

Volker

echidna

No Volker.Doormann, I requested the simplest of scientific experiments, an experiment to test the predictive ability of astrology. You have persistently refused to participate & variously evaded the experiment with either requests for money… … or a variation on “because I know” … … or a variation on “it only works if you believe that it works” … When your position is so weak that it cannot even stand up to the simplest of tests, what on earth is the point of discussing angles ? We may as well discuss the amazing coincidences generated from the colours of jelly beans, since from the evidence which you have provided, these appear to have similar predictive capabilities to astrology.

OTOH, if astrology is not at all predictive, as you seem to sometimes be alluding to … … then what use is astrology in our lives other than as a source of idle entertainment ?

Volker.Doormann

I have written to you: "There is a topic. What does make (profane) angles. There is absolute no need to inquire the system of astrology here."

I have answered in detail to you, that prediction is not an area of astrology. This is ignorance.
That, what I have explained to you, was an information about that, what the science, art, and trade astrology in general is doing. It's up to you, to take these information as black hole or to take these information to learn. I have no interest, to play the dog in your game on persons. If you argue, that money is a reason, that proves, that the science, art, and trade of astrology is a sign that astrology is bullshit, than it also a sign that engineering is bullshit, if engineers taking money. Beside this, I have informed you, that you can get a chart and a chart description for free. This not to acknowlede is ignorance.
I do know. As a blind knows no light, but the other knows light. If you argue, that knowledge must be bullshit, because you do not know, than it must also be bullshit, that others as blinds do see light.
No. I have said, that 'astrology do work, also if you do not believe on astrology'. This is a recognizable difference. I do not know, what the reason is of such a converting of the truth. But it is interesting.
It is your fantasy, that I have a position, and it is your fantasy that I have a weak position.
There is only astrology, which is relevant, not me. Argue against astrology, not against persons.
There is no need that you must take part on this discussion.
People want to know. People do not want to believe. People wont to know about their self. People are not in general able to perceive their own actions resulting from their character in a clear sight. If this would not be true, than there would be no conflict in the world between people. It is the lack of knowledge and a lack of consciousness about the effect of the own actions. People are living in a social relationship. If one is thinking he is the head of the world because he is predestinated for this because he is a skeptic, astrology can help him painful to learn, that this is only an imagination in his brain, and that other people are well do know, to manage their things without this black hole claims of skeptics on persons, especially an astrologers, and his lust on personal inquisition. And he can learn and acknowledge this - , what I have written.

Volker

echidna

Hi Volker, thanks for clarifying astrology’s lack of predictive capability. Sorry for my assumption that it could predict, it’s a very common claim of the astrologers which I have come across. But you have firmly described the astrological link to the Kobe earthquake as a coincidence. I agree, but if it is a coincidence, then how does astrology provide any certain knowledge at all ?

Accepting Kobe as a coincidence can only create a belief that there was a link from astrology, but no certainty at all. So once again, you are saying that astrology does not provide any factual knowledge, only belief based on coincidence. By your own words then, people seek to know rather than to believe, which makes astrology not particularly useful. I agree.

P.S. Actually the vast majority of sceptics I’m familiar with are entirely sceptical of the concept of predestiny as you put it. Given that you are proposing an astrological link between people’s characters & the pre-destined movement of the planets, then the issue of predestiny would remain entirely with the believer in astrology.

Volker.Doormann

If there are astrologers who claim that, ask them. I do interpret birth charts for persons with my software and transits of planets, who would know about herself in real truth in this present.

There are many people of this. p.e. some people of the generation born in 1966. There was the great conjunction of Uranus and Pluto on July 1st. But because of the slow movement of those planets, mostly all people in this year have this aspect. Some of them have more than 40 valid astrological aspects { all integer value of 4*sqr(cos(aspect angle)) }. Some of them genius, but they cant sleep more than 3 hour and have power as much, as they must drive 60 miles with a bicycle each day to get relaxed. Some of them have big problems with claims from social sides. Some of them have then studied astrology and have first time understand their situation in structure. I know a genius woman out of this year and this amount of aspects, and she does work now with children, who have an abnormal high intelligence, and because of that they got problems in their class. Parents comes to her and she does explain to the parents the complicated structure of their children.

The knowledge about the relation of the planets to the psychic structure of all these different people is not to get in weekend or to download. I do this study of the psyche for 40 years now, and it is still a continous process.

Some days ago there was in Germany a remembering of 16 killed people from a 19 year old man Robert Steinhauser (a=umlaut = ä ), from nobody knows how this could happen, last year in April in Erfurt, Germany. I have asked the family for the birth data of their son, and the father has given me the exact time of birth of Robert, his mother was next to him. A computer analysis of this birth data I have published on my page in German. He has an aspect of Sun square Saturn what is similar to Sun conjunction Saturn, what I have written in this forum some days ago (without any appriciation) as it is also in my chart, and I have lost my father as I was not two years old, and is also a symbol of ‘missing a father’. My analysis writes “You have missed your Father as partner in your life." His Father was Mananger in a big concern and has never taken perception of Robert. All these familary things are public from the press.
Text parts about Robert Steinhauser from my page reads in German:
„Du hast vaterliche Begleitung in Deinem Leben sehr vermisst.
Du willst Deine Umwelt unter Kontrolle bringen.
Du selbst integrierst Dich aber nicht.
Du hast Schwierigkeiten mit Autoritatspersonen umzugehen.
Du bist dann nicht Du selbst, sondern verstellst Dich. Unbewusst 'erdruckst' Du die Menschen in Deiner Umgebung mit Liebe.
Du wirst manchmal wutend oder jahzornig, was Dir selber schadet.
Manchmal möchtest Du die bestehende Ordnung durch drastische Maßnahmen umsturzen.
Du hattest eine schwere Kindheit. Dich belastet ein wenig, dass Du nicht immer der Massgebende bist. Wenn Du nicht gebuhrend beachtet wirst, bist Du gleich verletzt.
Vielfach wirst Du ungeliebt von der Gesellschaft betrogen."
English:
"You have missed your father as partner in your life.
You want to bring your environment under control.
You do not integrate you however.
You have to deal difficulties with authority persons.
You are then not you, but adjust you. In an unconsciousness way you suppress your environment with love.
You become sometimes exploded.
Sometimes you would like to destroy existing order by drastic actions.
You had a heavy childhood.
A little loads you, that you not are always the authority who does control.
If you are not considered with appritiations, you are directly hurt.
Often you become unloved of the society horned.”

The school has fired him a half year prior to the end of school, because he has bad notes in his papers. The school did not has informed the parents. He has gotten absolute no certificate from the school as a minor finish. On the day the final examinations of his former class has taken place, he has come back into the school and has killed 16 people cool, mostly teacher step by step with a gun. After he was closed in a room by an other teacher, he has killed himself.

There are not only on bit problems to solve in astrology. Humas have more aspects to appriciate, to get a picture.
You mixed up some things. i.)There is a coincidence of angles and earthquake. Then there is a significance, because the very 5 minutes of the 8640 time intervals in one month of 5 minutes were the indicator I has the absolute highest value in that month coincides with the exact time (+- 5minutes) of Kobe. But because this coincidence is also significant in the India earthquake with the same significance this seems not only as coincidences, but as significant. If there is something significant, skeptics always do sleep further, but other do take care of this. ii.) Angles are angles and as I have stated more then one time, this is a thread about angles, and angles have the dimension of degrees and not of astrology. The fact, that astrologers make uses of angles does not prove, that angles have an astrological dimension. Please be so kind, and do not mix up permanently this thread about angles with astrology. We do like to speak here in this thread only about planetary angles and their meaning. Nothing else.
Astrology is not a belief system as language is not. It is to learned (as a language of symbols) equal to a language as a tool to understand the meaning of structures of the psyche. If you do not know the symbol of 'pardon' or 'Asta la vista' it is stupid to argue, that French or Spain is a belief system. To judge astrology as a belief system can only result out of superstition that has absolutely no knowledge about the discipline of astrology. No one who do critique on astrology has studied astrology. The guy, who has pointed out his 10 questions to astrology has argued incorrect about the forces and its dependences of distance. He cannot disclose effects of increasing forces because of planetary mass, as all astronomers know it from gravity lenses or from Einstein. This critique is pseudoscience; religious Trash (from the bible and from the churches) to bias students of astronomy and to preserve the chair of authority which is without any scientific meaning.

Volker

Volker.Doormann

What does make angles?

---------------------------------------------------------
Magnitude 6.4 EASTERN TURKEY
2003 May 01 00:27:04 UTC
Preliminary Earthquake Report
U.S. Geological Survey, National Earthquake Information Center
World Data Center for Seismology, Denver

Magnitude 6.4
Date-Time Thursday, May 01, 2003 at 00:27:04 (UTC) - Coordinated Universal Time, Thursday, May 01, 2003 at 03:27:04 AM local time at epicenter
Location 38.99N 40.46E
Depth 10.0 kilometers
Region EASTERN TURKEY
Reference 10 km (10 miles) N of Bingol, Turkey
-----------------------------------------------------------

Relevant planetary angle distances = integer values of 4 * sqr(cos(angle distance))
( 0° 30° 45° 60° 90° 120° 135° 150° 180° ) FWHM = 5-7°

Planetary data:

1st May 2003 00:27 UT
delta t: 64.897433 sec jd (ET) = 2452760.519501

Planet ecl. long. ecl. lat. dist. speed
Sun 10 ta 14'28.3466 -0° 0' 0.1905 1.007466128 0°58'16.8664
Moon 4 ta 55'20.1267 -2°11'17.2433 0.002717256 11°47'47.5070
Mercury 19 ta 40'12.5175 1°49'32.5349 0.601763030 -0°22'21.9038
Venus 11 ar 17'43.3877 -1°39'27.1273 1.421168425 1°12'37.6046
Mars 5 aq 22'36.5301 -1°29'17.2601 0.990785471 0°35'17.5686
Jupiter 9 le 9'52.9044 0°50'29.6781 5.263320210 0° 4'47.0869
Saturn 26 ge 1'13.3582 -0°54'21.9958 9.705303050 0° 6'13.7420
Uranus 2 pi 15'43.0248 -0°44' 5.7191 20.378633379 0° 1'45.5296
Neptune 13 aq 7'29.3192 0° 1' 7.7861 30.115274894 0° 0'29.4678
Pluto 19 sa 33'40.0685 9°31'22.4928 29.865193204 -0° 1' 8.0389

Relevant planetary angle distances number: 12

Relevant planetary angle distances:

Sun 10°14' ta Jupiter 9°10' le = 88°56' = 90° - 1°04'
Mars 5°23' aq Moon 4°55' ta = 89°32' = 90° - 0° 28'
Sun 10°14' ta Venus 11°18' = 28°56' = 30° - 1° 04'
Sun 10°14' ta Moon 4°55' ta = 5°19' = 0° + 5° 19'
Jupiter 9°10' le Mars 5°23' aq = 176° 23' = 180° - 3°37'
Jupiter 9°10' le Neptun 13° 07' aq = 176° 03' = 180° - 3° 56'
Moon 4°55' ta Uranus 2°16' pi = 62°39' = 60° + 2° 39'
Sun 10°14' ta Saturn 26° 1' ge = 45°47' = 45° + 0°47'
Mars 5°23' aq Pluto 19 34' sa = 45°57' = 45° + 0°57'
Jupiter 9°10' le ta Saturn 26° 1' ge = 43°09' = 45° - 1°51'
Sun 10°14' ta Neptun 13°07' aq = 85°07' = 90° - 4°53'
Sun 10°14' ta Mars 5°23' aq = 94°37' = 90° + 4°37'


g vector position on ecliptic at 1st May 2003 00:27 UT earth location 38.99N 40.46E = 26° ge 07' =
Saturn = 26 ge 1'13.3582

QED

Volker

Volker.Doormann

update:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Relevant planetary angle distances number: 13
Relevant planetary angle distances:

Sun 10°14' ta Jupiter 9°10' le = 88°56' = 90° - 1°04'
Mars 5°23' aq Moon 4°55' ta = 89°32' = 90° - 0° 28'
Sun 10°14' ta Venus 11°18' = 28°56' = 30° - 1° 04'
Sun 10°14' ta Moon 4°55' ta = 5°19' = 0° + 5° 19'
Jupiter 9°10' le Mars 5°23' aq = 176° 23' = 180° - 3°37'
Jupiter 9°10' le Neptun 13° 07' aq = 176° 03' = 180° - 3° 56'
Moon 4°55' ta Uranus 2°16' pi = 62°39' = 60° + 2° 39'
Sun 10°14' ta Saturn 26° 1' ge = 45°47' = 45° + 0°47'
Mars 5°23' aq Pluto 19 34' sa = 45°57' = 45° + 0°57'
Jupiter 9°10' le ta Saturn 26° 1' ge = 43°09' = 45° - 1°51'
Sun 10°14' ta Neptun 13°07' aq = 85°07' = 90° - 4°53'
Sun 10°14' ta Mars 5°23' aq = 94°37' = 90° + 4°37'
Jupiter 9°10' le Moon 4°55' ta = 94°15' = 90° + 4°15'
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The earthquake of 1st May 2003 00:27 UT in Turkey is a so called mode 8 quake, because the relevant angles of the planets are placed mostly in multiple ~45° angle distances starting from the local meridian of Bingol at event time at ecliptic lengths of 26°07' sa (Medium coeli) in ~45° steps (Mars/Neptun 1) (-/- 2) (Moon/Sun 3) (Saturn 4) (Jupiter 5) (-/- 6) (-/- 7) (local meridian = M.C. 8) . There is only one planetry couple of mode 6 (60° Moon/Uranus) and only one couple of mode 12 (30° Venus/Sun).

»13 angle distances, which are relevant in astrology coincides simultaniously with an major earthquake of mag 6.4 as mode 8 pattern with one planetary angle aligned to the local meridian of Bingol, Turkey, with similar structures to the mode pattern of Kobe/Japan, India, and many more.« Still random?

These angles also are busy on the sun:

There is an animation from the sun flare of 7th April 1997, 14:00 UT Flare, 14:01 - 14:50 Shock, 15:00 - CME

Planet heliocentric ecliptic length

Jupiter 306,21102830°
Uranus 305,43979897°

Difference -0,7712293277° (0°)

Jupiter 306,21102830°
Mars 186,23294486°

Difference 119,97808344 = (120°)



What does make angles?

Volker

ps418

Is there some kind of point or argument being made in the last two posts? Or are they just, as appears to me, a bunch of meaningless numerological blather (i.e. astrology)?

Patrick