Panta Pei

<waves to Media-1>

Pardon me, but please answer my question prior to submitting anymore sycophantic nonsense.

The mind you save could be your own

<sorry Buffman, E for effort and all that, right >

Media-1

Since I'm the furthest thing from such a diety, I can't say what I would do in any particular situation. I can only tell you that as a human being, I am shocked at any mother that would leave her kids in a hot car while she gets her hair done.

Media-1

[ June 30, 2002: Message edited by: Media-1 ]</p>

Panta Pei

"I can only tell you that as a human being, I am shocked at any mother that would leave her kids in a hot car while she gets her hair done."

Welcome to atheism, Media-1.



Please find a few moments to post your deconversion story in our "Welcome" thread.

Media-1

This is excellent as an anthropology theory about how/why we humans have moral values. But it tends to reduce "right" and "wrong" to good vs. bad for human survival.

This survival theory might be accurate, but it has very little to do with why we get pissed off about this woman. I, for one, didn't get pissed off about this because of concerns for the future of human survival. I got angry because IMO the woman didn't seem to care much about her own precious little kids.

Media-1

rebelnerd

<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />


Filo

Panta Pei

"I got angry because IMO the woman didn't seem to care much about her own precious little kids."

Exactly

...and that her omission to act in a caring manner was wrong.

Powerful evidence that loving deities do not exist.

rebelnerd

Posted by Illithid:

Because these values are inculated in childhood, they are held on an emotional level. My rational brain understands why parents defend their offspring, but this probably wouldn't occur to me as I assaulted someone who threatened my son. Preserving the lives of the young members of one's social group is an important evolutionary advantage, and so it is a strongly instilled moral value. So it angers us when someone flouts that value. It bothers me particularly in that it is evidence that this culture is failing to instill moral values into its children, and its survival may thus be threatened.

'nuff said?


Filo

Nikolai

Media-1, are you the same one as the guy on guitar.com message boards?

HelenM

Oh, so your anger wasn't anything to do with God, then?

Sounds remarkably similar to why atheists are angry about it!

love
Helen

Vorkosigan

On the contrary, if morals have a basis in innate attitudes and behaviors, it goes a long way to explain that. Moral behavior requires, at minimum, logic, memory, empathy, planning skills, the ability to connect actions and consequences, inference skills, and other processing abilities that go on all the time. It is easy to understand why, if one can have moral feeling, the death of children killed by their own mother is especially disgusting.

On the other hand, if one has absolute morals, this response is impossible to understand. In an absolute system, such as you espouse, morals work without regard for human empathy and feeling; they exist independently of us. Under your system, moral laws are impersonal; under ours, they are intimately personal. Nowhere in your moral beliefs is empathy specifically identified; it is unnecessary for moral functioning in your view, since morals are handed down ex cathedra by the Sky Santa. Therefore, I am at a loss to explain, using your ideas, how you could get upset at observing a moral infraction performed by anyone.

Vorkosigan