Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Dr Rick · 07-31-2003, 07:29 AM

:notworthy

Jayjay · 07-31-2003, 07:34 AM

Bravo Lobstrosity!

That was exactly the kind of analysis I'd like River to present so that we could see this "statistical perfection" ourselves without having to rely on handpicked examples.

Nialler · 07-31-2003, 09:21 AM

Lobstrosity,

Clinical piece of rational analysis there.

River's case lies in shreds - although I don't think that it's very clear what it was!

River · 07-31-2003, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tribalbeeyatch
Something about semen originating from a place between the back and the ribs...

Well, the area between the back and the ribs is a relatively large area.

River · 07-31-2003, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nickle
OK, then call them "in similitude." And what about the others? I just made up a quick list that echos your list. Are you saying that the words in your OP are the only ones that are "directly opposite or 'in smilitude'" as you say?
Are they the only pairings of words in the Qur'an that have these properties? No, they aren't. They are just the only ones that match up on word count.

Do you really think the numerical placement of the words " Jesus " and " Adam" was just coincidence? Especially when it is hinted from within the text.

-3:59) Surely the likeness of Jesus is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He (Allah) created him (Jesus) from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was. [ Holy Qur'an]

Fact 1:

Occurrences of the word "Jesus" in the whole Quran = 25 times = Occurrences of the word "Adam" = 25 times.

We see then that the likeness of Adam and Jesus p.u.t. is also mathematically appearing in the reiteration of their names.

This likeness occurs in the verse 59 of chapter 3: and it is the only verse where the two names comes together

Fact 2: The two names occurs together in sura 3:59 in the 19th place if we count from the end of the table (the 7th place if we count from the beginning of the table).

Fact 3:

The 19th word "Adam" and the 19th word "Jesus" occurs both one time in the 19th Chapter (Sura Maria). In comparison of fact 2 we can note that it is also the 7th place counting from the end of the table. The similarities are astonishing.

Fact 4 :

The 19th word "Jesus" occurs in sura 19, verse 34.

The 19th word "Adam" occurs in sura 19, verse 58.

And from the verse 34 to verse 34 there are 25 verses, and as we know the number 25 is the occurrence of the two names.

http://fakir60.tripod.com/jesus.htm

River · 07-31-2003, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pariahSS
river, you claim that the numerology coincide that occur in the english version are irrelevant because it is not in the original language.

doesnt the fact that so many coincidence can be found after it is translated into a different language imply that they are after all, only coincidence?

month appears 12 times, but hour does not appear 24 times, etc etc

although i do find these amusing, i fail to see how they prove anything. are there more than that? the book is several inches thick afterall.

Well, one thing for sure is that when the Qur'an is translated to English , the English translation uses either more or less words.

Secondly, Muslims have always considered the Arabic Qur'an the literal word of G-d or the exact speech of G-d dictated to Gabriel. So , any mathematical ratios may give light to significance....especially of word placement and juxtapositions.

Thirdly, the Bible Code shouldnt have any significance....even if amazing ratios are revealed. The reason is that the Bible is not considered the literal speech of G-d . It has been proven to be the work of Scribes, who were apostles, priests, monks and bishops. It may be inspired but it was not His Speech.

River · 07-31-2003, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by echidna
River I'm afraid that doesn't count for a rebuttal. If it does, then Kat's "not another Islam(ic) link" is entirely equivalent.

Well, I didnt offer it as a rebuttal.

River · 07-31-2003, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wounded King
This can hardly be a valid argument if you claim that the Qu'ran is the word of God. If muhammad was simply relaying God's word then his intentions are immaterial.

It is true...intentions can not be known with certainty. However, it is important to know why things are the way they are.

River · 07-31-2003, 11:37 AM

-Lobstrosity

I see your point but
Moby Dick is not the word of G-d....
Thus, any chains/strains found is purely coincidental and does not hold any real world value or significance.

River · 07-31-2003, 11:45 AM

The code 19 argument actually arises from within the Qur'anic text in a very specific passage. Numerous dissenter religious groups also hold code 19 as a tenet or even central tenet ( Bahaiis and Submitters). Although their application of Code 19 might have some flaws in it .....the way these Quranic verses revolve around MULTIPLES of 19 is beyond Chance.

Holy Qur'an

"Over it is 19. And We have set none but angels as Guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers,- in order that the People of the Book (Jews ans Christians) may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith,- and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say, "What symbol doth Allah intend by this?" Thus doth Allah leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth: and none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He and this is no other than a warning to mankind.
Nay; I swear by the moon,And by the Night as it retreateth,And by the Dawn as it shineth forth,This is but one of the mighty (portents),A warning to mankind,To any of you that chooses to press forward, or to follow behind;

[Holy Quran :74:30-37]

07-31-2003, 07:29 AM	#101
Dr Rick Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: USA Posts: 5,393	Nice work, Lob. :notworthy

07-31-2003, 11:45 AM	#110
River Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NY Posts: 3,680	ORIGINS OF CODE 19 The code 19 argument actually arises from within the Qur'anic text in a very specific passage. Numerous dissenter religious groups also hold code 19 as a tenet or even central tenet ( Bahaiis and Submitters). Although their application of Code 19 might have some flaws in it .....the way these Quranic verses revolve around MULTIPLES of 19 is beyond Chance. Holy Qur'an "Over it is 19. And We have set none but angels as Guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers,- in order that the People of the Book (Jews ans Christians) may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith,- and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say, "What symbol doth Allah intend by this?" Thus doth Allah leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth: and none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He and this is no other than a warning to mankind. Nay; I swear by the moon,And by the Night as it retreateth,And by the Dawn as it shineth forth,This is but one of the mighty (portents),A warning to mankind,To any of you that chooses to press forward, or to follow behind; [Holy Quran :74:30-37]

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07-31-2003, 07:34 AM	#102
Jayjay Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 6,261	Bravo Lobstrosity! That was exactly the kind of analysis I'd like River to present so that we could see this "statistical perfection" ourselves without having to rely on handpicked examples.

07-31-2003, 09:21 AM	#103
Nialler Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Paris Posts: 8,473	Lobstrosity, Clinical piece of rational analysis there. River's case lies in shreds - although I don't think that it's very clear what it was!

07-31-2003, 11:37 AM	#109
River Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NY Posts: 3,680	-Lobstrosity I see your point but Moby Dick is not the word of G-d.... Thus, any chains/strains found is purely coincidental and does not hold any real world value or significance.

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