Freethought & Rationalism Archive

tronvillain · 06-13-2002, 08:08 PM

St. Robert:

Quote:

Do you only believe what you can be certain of?

I doubt it, since certainty is pretty hard to come by - he probably believes what he can be reasonably confident of.

Mageth · 06-13-2002, 08:09 PM

More odd questions.

Do you only believe what you can be certain of?

What I'm certain of I know. What I'm not certain of I might believe.

For instance, if I have a (known accurate) watch when I witness an event, I can say "I'm certain it happened at precicely ten o'clock. I know this because I looked at my watch, which is known to be accurate."

If I don't have a watch when I witness an event, I can say "I believe it happened around ten o'clock, because I'd left home somewhere around an hour earlier, at 9 o'clock by the mantel clock. I don't know for certain what time it happened because I didn't have a watch."

Jobar · 06-14-2002, 05:09 AM

St. Robert, I have written a lot on these boards about the difference between belief and Belief, faith and Faith. I use the capital to distinguish the sort of absolute, unquestionable 'holding of an idea' which Xtians claim to have for their religion. In the sense you mean it, we unbelievers have *no* Faith. We Believe in nothing. Even the simplest and most seemingly obvious statements, like 'the sky is blue', are held with a tiny bit of doubt- after all, it could suddenly cloud over. We put a (most usually inexact) percentage probability on every truth value. We hold nothing to be absolutely true. This is the attitude of scientists- all theories about reality are open to change if new and conflicting data are perceived. And your God-idea is not open to such healthy skepticism by the tenets of your religion.

Do you know anything about Buddhism? I rather like their idea that the root of all human suffering is desire, and clinging to things of this world. I think that Christians cling to their religion, telling themselves that it is something permanent and absolute and unchanging. "On Christ the solid rock I stand/All other ground is sinking sand..." (I grew up in the Southern Baptist church.)

But please, feel free to keep trying. I like your short and pointed posting style- a pleasant change from some, who tend to send in 20-page posts!

Ron Singh · 06-14-2002, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kassiana:
sikh:
God's definition:
Creator.

Kass:
Cool! I'm a God! I create stuff, therefore I'm a creator, therefore I'm a God! WORSHIP ME!

Or just send me money. I'll take that, too.

Naw homee. You are an alter-er. Not a creator.

~16yr old Sikh

HelenM · 06-14-2002, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by St. Robert:
Philosoft,

Do you like or dislike being human?

This wasn't to me but I can answer it!

It's my favorite out of everything I've tried so far!

love
Helen

tergiversant · 06-19-2002, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sikh:
Naw homee. You are an alter-er. Not a creator.

The word "create" in the English language almost invariably refers to altering stuff over time. The only time it does not is the very special case when it is used by certain theists to describe creatio ex nihilo, a concept which is a perversion of language and experience at best, incoherent gibberish at worst.

-tergiversant@OklahomaAtheists.org

Gemma Therese · 06-19-2002, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyShea:
I have done that....many times...never got an answer and it broke my heart for awhile. Then I realized there is nobody there to answer.

What answer are you looking for? Of all the millions of people who have truly believed in God, an extremely small percentage of them have had visions.

I am truly sorry your search for God has been futile. I pray for you.

Gemma Therese

Kassiana · 06-20-2002, 03:34 AM

Originally posted by sikh:
Naw homee. You are an alter-er. Not a creator.

Kass:
If you want to prove I have never "created" anything, feel free. I have made works of art no one else has ever made, written stories and songs, and performed in theatrics that no one else can duplicate. If that isn't "creation," what is it, again?

I am a creator. Therefore, according to your definition, I am a God. Worship me!

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06-13-2002, 08:09 PM	#122
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	More odd questions. Do you only believe what you can be certain of? What I'm certain of I know. What I'm not certain of I might believe. For instance, if I have a (known accurate) watch when I witness an event, I can say "I'm certain it happened at precicely ten o'clock. I know this because I looked at my watch, which is known to be accurate." If I don't have a watch when I witness an event, I can say "I believe it happened around ten o'clock, because I'd left home somewhere around an hour earlier, at 9 o'clock by the mantel clock. I don't know for certain what time it happened because I didn't have a watch."

06-14-2002, 05:09 AM	#123
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	St. Robert, I have written a lot on these boards about the difference between belief and Belief, faith and Faith. I use the capital to distinguish the sort of absolute, unquestionable 'holding of an idea' which Xtians claim to have for their religion. In the sense you mean it, we unbelievers have no Faith. We Believe in nothing. Even the simplest and most seemingly obvious statements, like 'the sky is blue', are held with a tiny bit of doubt- after all, it could suddenly cloud over. We put a (most usually inexact) percentage probability on every truth value. We hold nothing to be absolutely true. This is the attitude of scientists- all theories about reality are open to change if new and conflicting data are perceived. And your God-idea is not open to such healthy skepticism by the tenets of your religion. Do you know anything about Buddhism? I rather like their idea that the root of all human suffering is desire, and clinging to things of this world. I think that Christians cling to their religion, telling themselves that it is something permanent and absolute and unchanging. "On Christ the solid rock I stand/All other ground is sinking sand..." (I grew up in the Southern Baptist church.) But please, feel free to keep trying. I like your short and pointed posting style- a pleasant change from some, who tend to send in 20-page posts!

06-20-2002, 03:34 AM	#128
Kassiana Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: USA Posts: 5,046	Originally posted by sikh: Naw homee. You are an alter-er. Not a creator. Kass: If you want to prove I have never "created" anything, feel free. I have made works of art no one else has ever made, written stories and songs, and performed in theatrics that no one else can duplicate. If that isn't "creation," what is it, again? I am a creator. Therefore, according to your definition, I am a God. Worship me!

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