Wiploc

I gave examples. You want more?

Someone who thinks everyone should go to Heaven, will go to Heaven? Someone who thinks everyone should go to Hell will go to Hell? If anyone gets gets eternal punishment for believing in eternal punishment --- or for any other reason --- then we live in the worst of all possible worlds. Nothing could be less fair or less desirable than infinite punishment for a finite failing.

People tend to have vengeful diciplinarian type moral codes when they are young, and many of us learn more adult, more forgiving moralities as we age. Under the system you advocate (when you aren't disavowing it) people will be, in effect, punished for dying young.
crc

Hail

I continually wonder why most people Christian and Atheist alike always discuss God on the basis of what Christians believe God is. If they have a concept that does not make sence to you does that mean that it is the only possible concept? So many seem to spend so much energy rebuffing the Christian God that they end up not looking into any thing else.
If anything maybe Christ geve us a method to follow that brought us this far haphazardly but now it's time to loose the training wheels. It may have been the best that could be done for a really primitive people.
I think that exploring it independently would have you think 'I exist and as a result of something'. What is that thing? All of what is. Then all of what is is then some thing and everything is a part of that thing ( I and the father are one ). This thing is what most want to call God. It is an organised energy. It's doing something and you are a part of that act. No fear, no requirement of praise, no firery pit concept involved except in our paranoid conclusions though this could be a depiction of an early simplistic understanding of cause and effect.
To gain a greater understanding of that thing is to work with the grain, to live in fear is to work againt the grain or to work against the grain is to live in fear. Ancient peoples idea of it will be different form the idea you can get if you look at it now.
People hold on to the old concepts out of honor for what brought them here or love. This is hard to let go of but I believe certain things have to be cleared up for the world to move forward.

Wiploc

My interest in god is defensive. I'll be interested in any god whose followers make him a problem for me. Since I live in Kansas, you can guess who that's gonna be. It's not the deists who slashed my tires. It's not the Jews who are usurping my government. It's not the Buddists who --- you get the idea.

crc

Hail

Acknowledged. I was just dealing with the beliefe in God part thats where I was looking.

Radorth

Not quite, but something like that. It would depend on how pure their motives were I suppose. Remember the prostitute who was saved because "she loved much."?

That would be a point if it were true, but I think young people should not be categorized like that. Young people tend to have nobel and idealistic ideas. Older people tend to have harder opinions and more predjudice I think, but even then they vary from person to person.

I'm simply asking what is wrong with being judged as you judge others? If one is a self-righteous person, who thinks they are either above others, and above the law (who so often take advantage of others) then guess what? I'll admit I don't want them in heaven either. I do not intend to hang around holier-than-thou people for all eternity, religious or otherwise, if I can help it. We note that Jesus condemned virtually no one except the self-righteous.

Besides, hell is IMO a choice people make, and I do not think they actually want to be in heaven. In C.S Lewis' insightful example, a college professor decides to leave heaven because he can't get the perks he had on earth, like tenure. To him people are too equal in heaven. His pride makes him want to be somewhere else, even with other self-righteous people. Sometimes I think people are so far into hell already, they wouldn't know the difference. Heaven would seem like an odd place. (Obviously I believe the "fire" of hell is a metaphor).

I should mention that I am one of only five Protestants on earth who believe purgatory is scriptural and just.

Rad

Radorth

Oops. I meant to say I believe the "fire" of hell IS a metaphor.

Rad

Wiploc

1. You keep talking about people being judged by their own rules. When you are challenged on that, you sneak out of that position and two-step over to your other (incompatible) position of people being judged by your rule (or god's rule) that those who judge harshly shall be judged harshly. You shouldn't two-step back and forth hoping not to get caught. You should pick whichever position you really believe in and stick with it.

2. It doesn't look good for you to be denouncing self-righteous judgemental people while you are exemplifying the type. You should at least do your self-righteous judgements on Mondays and denounce them on Tuesdays.
crc

BadBadBad

Send me your secret Bible decoder ring. In the mean time, we can all read for ourselves.

Radorth

Really? Did I call you a "jackass"?

How about a "scab"?

A "troll" maybe?

Did I send around e-mails telling people not to lower themselves to speak to you?

Did I start a thread just to discuss your personal problems?

OK, Wiploc. Let's try this again, as I am sincerely attempting to communicate with you, in spite of your resolve to put me down.

What is wrong with this assertion by Jesus?:

Judge not, lest you be judged. With what measure you mete, it will be measured back to you.

Rad

Wiploc

For the record, I didn't do any of that.

Maybe somebody did that stuff and you are confusing him with me?

Maybe you are throwing out bogus claims hoping to throw me off my stride?

I don't understand this part of your post.



Ditto to that, but don't expect me to put up with much more of this.



How many times do you want me to answer this? This plan leads to injustice. Some people have poor judgement. Poor judgement and moral corruption are different things. You could be a good person with poor judgement. According to this plan, a good person who wrongly thinks other people should be harshly punished in the afterlife will be harshly punished in the afterlife. That's stupid and unfair.

I think I'm done answering this question. Unless you productively engage, rather than just repeating the question, I'm done here.
crc