Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GunnerJ · 02-26-2002, 11:40 AM

Quote:

When it comes to many in the anti circ crowd, if you aren't with them, you are against them. If you aren't anti circ then you must be pro circ.

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm still in stiches over Mr Darwin labeling me "pro-circ" because I pointed out the flaws in an analogy.

Corwin · 02-26-2002, 12:16 PM

There is some logic to it actually.

Christianity says 'if you aren't for us, you're against us.' In this case, a logical fallacy. (Omitting a third option, namely being totally disconnected from the whole thing.)

Circ is a little different. If you aren't against it, you allow it to happen. Ergo, you're essentially giving at least tacit support to it.

Dr Rick · 02-26-2002, 12:45 PM

Do you really believe that lack of opposition to something is a form of tacit support?!?! Is there no such thing as neutrality or uncertainty?

[ February 26, 2002: Message edited by: rbochnermd ]</p>

Corwin · 02-26-2002, 12:52 PM

Do you have a 'lack of opposition' to assault?

I'm guessing no.

Dr Rick · 02-26-2002, 12:59 PM

Yeah, but I think assault is a bad thing, so I wouldn't claim to be neutral or uncertain about it.

I'm not so sure about school vouchers, for instance; and I don't oppose letting people pray in church though I don't do it myself. It would be wrong to say that either of these postions somehow translates into forms of support.

[ February 26, 2002: Message edited by: rbochnermd ]</p>

Morat · 02-26-2002, 01:22 PM

Let's see. I have never personally circumcized anyone. I have never asked to have anyone circumcized. I have not paid for anyone to either be, or perform, a circumcizion.

I am uncertain as to whether I have any ethical or legal right to prevent a circumcizion, should I decide they are "bad/wrong/morally bankrupt/etc".

And yet I'm supporting them? How? No one I know has circumcized an infant, or is even pregnant. Unless I should take up arms, storm a hospital, and forcibly prevent them from taking place, there is no difference between me being "anti-circ", "pro-circ" and "neutral".

Dr Rick · 02-26-2002, 01:45 PM

The argument that lack of opposition is tantamount to tacit support is a <a href="http://datanation.com/fallacies/distract/fd.htm" target="_blank">false dilemma</a> fallacy.

Corwin · 02-26-2002, 01:48 PM

It really isn't 'false.' Again, we scream bloody murder about female circumcision in other countries. Hell it's illegal in this country. But the exact same procedure (yes it IS and we've clearly demonstrated that) in this country is just fine?

Again. I'm thinkin no.

Dr Rick · 02-26-2002, 02:05 PM

...That's the fallacy of <a href="http://datanation.com/fallacies/falsean.htm" target="_blank">false analogy</a>.

Corwin · 02-26-2002, 02:26 PM

Kindly explain how it's false?

The exact same procedure for the exact same reasons is ok in one circumstance but not ok in the other?

You sir, are guilty of the 'calling something a logical fallacy when it is not a logical fallacy' logical fallacy. (We REALLY need to come up with a name for that....)

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02-26-2002, 12:16 PM	#192
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	There is some logic to it actually. Christianity says 'if you aren't for us, you're against us.' In this case, a logical fallacy. (Omitting a third option, namely being totally disconnected from the whole thing.) Circ is a little different. If you aren't against it, you allow it to happen. Ergo, you're essentially giving at least tacit support to it.

02-26-2002, 12:45 PM	#193
Dr Rick Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: USA Posts: 5,393	Do you really believe that lack of opposition to something is a form of tacit support?!?! Is there no such thing as neutrality or uncertainty? [ February 26, 2002: Message edited by: rbochnermd ]</p>

02-26-2002, 12:52 PM	#194
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Do you have a 'lack of opposition' to assault? I'm guessing no.

02-26-2002, 12:59 PM	#195
Dr Rick Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: USA Posts: 5,393	Yeah, but I think assault is a bad thing, so I wouldn't claim to be neutral or uncertain about it. I'm not so sure about school vouchers, for instance; and I don't oppose letting people pray in church though I don't do it myself. It would be wrong to say that either of these postions somehow translates into forms of support. [ February 26, 2002: Message edited by: rbochnermd ]</p>

02-26-2002, 01:22 PM	#196
Morat Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 932	Let's see. I have never personally circumcized anyone. I have never asked to have anyone circumcized. I have not paid for anyone to either be, or perform, a circumcizion. I am uncertain as to whether I have any ethical or legal right to prevent a circumcizion, should I decide they are "bad/wrong/morally bankrupt/etc". And yet I'm supporting them? How? No one I know has circumcized an infant, or is even pregnant. Unless I should take up arms, storm a hospital, and forcibly prevent them from taking place, there is no difference between me being "anti-circ", "pro-circ" and "neutral".

02-26-2002, 01:45 PM	#197
Dr Rick Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: USA Posts: 5,393	The argument that lack of opposition is tantamount to tacit support is a <a href="http://datanation.com/fallacies/distract/fd.htm" target="_blank">false dilemma</a> fallacy.

02-26-2002, 01:48 PM	#198
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	It really isn't 'false.' Again, we scream bloody murder about female circumcision in other countries. Hell it's illegal in this country. But the exact same procedure (yes it IS and we've clearly demonstrated that) in this country is just fine? Again. I'm thinkin no.

02-26-2002, 02:05 PM	#199
Dr Rick Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: USA Posts: 5,393	...That's the fallacy of <a href="http://datanation.com/fallacies/falsean.htm" target="_blank">false analogy</a>.

02-26-2002, 02:26 PM	#200
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Kindly explain how it's false? The exact same procedure for the exact same reasons is ok in one circumstance but not ok in the other? You sir, are guilty of the 'calling something a logical fallacy when it is not a logical fallacy' logical fallacy. (We REALLY need to come up with a name for that....)

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