Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Magus55 · 05-26-2003, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by diana
Hi, Magus.

Since this is the EoG forum, let's focus on what the story of Job tells us about God's attributes. Several of the posters already mentioned this and asked questions, but I see you have ignored them. So I will repeat: Is God omniscient?

The answer expected here is a either "yes" or "no." Once you've answered, an explanation and support for your choice is welcome.

Thank you for your understanding.

d

Yes God is omniscient ( all-knowing).

Jhn 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Jhn 16:30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

There are more verses saying that God/Jesus know everything, but don't know where off the top of my head.

Magus55 · 05-26-2003, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlanWald
The Christian God (the only one I'm really educated in) isn't all knowing. He can't be. For an example, He can't know exactly when we will lose faith in Him, because we could lose faith at any time. So He can't be all knowing.

Sorry but that is the worst argument against omniscience iv'e ever heard. Yes you could lose faith at any time, and guess what - God knows the exact instant you will lose that faith - to him, it can't happen at any time, because he knows when it will.

How is that an argument against omniscience? If he is omniscient, then he knows all things, including when you will lose faith - therefore He can be all knowing.

JERDOG · 05-26-2003, 07:09 PM

OK Magus55 you say he knows all then how do you reconsile that with your first statement?

Quote:

God wants us to find out if we really are living for God,

Should not god already know if we are living for him or not?
If so then that cannot posssibily be a reason for the test.

hinduwoman · 05-26-2003, 07:12 PM

Yeah, the story about Job's children always upsets me. Jehovah simply gave him more children, as if the dead ones don't matter to him and should not matter to Job.

Whether God knew about Job's faith or not, the fact remains it was a wager, which just means,"as flies are to wanton boys, so are we to the gods/They kill us for their sport".

Magus55 · 05-26-2003, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JERDOG
OK Magus55 you say he knows all then how do you reconsile that with your first statement?

Should not god already know if we are living for him or not?
If so then that cannot posssibily be a reason for the test.

God wants US to find out who or what we are living for.

winstonjen · 05-26-2003, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
God wants US to find out who or what we are living for.

Since your deity knows everything, wouldn't it be more efficient to simply implant the results that he KNOWS will happen into our minds anyway?

Magus55 · 05-26-2003, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hinduwoman
Yeah, the story about Job's children always upsets me. Jehovah simply gave him more children, as if the dead ones don't matter to him and should not matter to Job.

Whether God knew about Job's faith or not, the fact remains it was a wager, which just means,"as flies are to wanton boys, so are we to the gods/They kill us for their sport".

And this is where the lack of understanding between non-Christians comes in. Our life on Earth is meaningless compared to our eternal life. Our 70-100 year life span is a split second compared to eternity. Why would Jobs family care? They are with God in heaven for all eternity, never to face pain or suffering, or hate etc. again. I can't wait to be with God in Heaven. He is the most awesome being there is, and His love is imeasurable.

winstonjen · 05-26-2003, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
I can't wait to be with God in Heaven. He is the most awesome being there is, and His love is imeasurable.

Well then, are you taking steps to cut your life short, such as smoking, drinking, drug-taking, a lazy lifestyle and an unhealthy diet? If not, then you are a hypocrite.

The rest of your post also indicates that you do not care about human life, and if a killer killed your family you would be GLAD that the believers are in heaven.

Magus55 · 05-26-2003, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winstonjen
Since your deity knows everything, wouldn't it be more efficient to simply implant the results that he KNOWS will happen into our minds anyway?

Nope, affects free will. If we know we don't have faith in God, and can't see for ourselves, how do we have the choice to have faith in him or not? By implanting our ultimate choice in our head, God forces us to do that, without us being able to make the concious decision. Also, without knowing whether our faith in God will be regained or not, it leaves open the door of hope, and allows others to step in and show those people the path to God. If you know for a fact that ou will remain faithless - there is no hope, and you have no reason to live.

winstonjen · 05-26-2003, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Nope, affects free will. If we know we don't have faith in God, and can't see for ourselves, how do we have the choice to have faith in him or not? By implanting our ultimate choice in our head, God forces us to do that, without us being able to make the concious decision.

But knowing what would happen anyway also affects free will, because we cannot choose otherwise - that would remove your deity's omniscience.

Besides, in the OT, Yahweh shows a complete DISRESPECT for free will.

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05-26-2003, 07:12 PM	#24
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Yeah, the story about Job's children always upsets me. Jehovah simply gave him more children, as if the dead ones don't matter to him and should not matter to Job. Whether God knew about Job's faith or not, the fact remains it was a wager, which just means,"as flies are to wanton boys, so are we to the gods/They kill us for their sport".

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