Mageth

I've recently been going through this with my 7-year-old son. He's recently been concerned about "alcohol", particularly "Bud Light" (he knows this one because it's the most frequent bottlecap he finds in the park; when he asked if it was from "alcohol", I said yes, beer). I don't know if they've talked to the kids at school or what, but he's gotten the definite impression that alcohol (and smoking) are "bad". A good thing to teach kids, I guess, but...

The other night I ordered a beer with my meal at a Mexican restaurant when dining with my wife, a friend, and my son. He was quite concerned that I had "alcohol". My wife and I patiently explained to him that adults can and do occasionally drink alcohol, and can do so responsibly, and that mommy and daddy do occasionally have a drink, but that kids should not, and that it is bad for adults to drink too much, and that no one should drive after drinking.

It seemed to get through. Kids appreciate honesty, and can understand more than people give them credit for.

My parents never drank, forbade drinking, and considered it a "sin", so I never had exposure to responsible drinking. Results? As a teenager and young adult, I binged whenever I could, got in trouble a couple of times, and damn near killed myself and others on a few occasions.

dangin

I'm from a whole genetic soup of addictive personalties. Both grandpas, my father, my brother all have either smoked for 40 years, or had drinking problems. One grandpa was hooked on valium, twice.

What I intend to tell my kids is that the later you start the better you used your early time. Also if my daughter were 16 and I found a bag of pot in her desk, I would tell her that if she thought she was able to control it then OK, I won't kick your ass for the pot, but if your school work, your extracuricular interests, or other valuable parts of your predrug life start to suffer, then I'm going to get all uptight about that.

Being responsible is a resposibility. If you want to enjoy a buzz from time to time, that just means you have to be more motivated other times to keep pace. Being a burnout is not acceptable.

Selsaral

Yeah the buzz you get from alcohol can be 'fun'. Personally, I way more enjoy the buzz from marajuana. There's no way around it, it's 'fun'. The after effects of alcohol (and the taste which I dislike) stop me from drinking, although when I do (usually when dragged to the bar by some friends) I don't enjoy drinking but I do enjoy the buzz.

I'll also say that it's quite possible to get drunk or stoned and NOT enjoy it. The first time I smoked weed I was 16 and I didn't 'get it' at all. I don't even know if I got a buzz or not. I just didn't get it.

But five years later I smoked in an entirely different atmosphere, with good good friends, and with a much more mature mind, and it was an entirely different experience. It was beautiful.

callmejay

Why drink or smoke? For the sheer pleasure of it. It's not really that complicated. Drinking and smoking feel good. (They also serve other, more dubious, purposes like numbing yourself, but that's a different story.)

Wrong. I've smoked maybe thirty in my life and enjoyed most of 'em.

Mageth

But five years later I smoked in an entirely different atmosphere, with good good friends, and with a much more mature mind, and it was an entirely different experience. It was beautiful.

Joseph Campbell talks a bit about drug "trip" experiences. He says that the quality, and experiences, of the trip largely depends on your mind set going in. The atmosphere and your attidude largely determines the quality of your experience.

I think he was onto something.

Oxidizing Material

I never really understood the whole "my parents forbade it, so I did it a fuckload" thing that a lot of people tell me. When my parents told me "don't do X because it's bad for you", I put my trust in them, because I figured they knew a thing or two being 6 times my age. Plus they set a good example; neither of them touch alcohol or smoke.

dangin

When I was coming of age the antidrug message made all illegal drugs the same. Coke, heroin, opium, marijuana (crack didn't really exist, although people knew how to free base, and meth wasn't even thought up yet) were all the same according to the propaganda I was receiving. But then you grow up some more and find out that marijuana and heroin aren't even in the same ballpark, and you realize you have been lied to again.

I think the biggest problem with this is that a lot of people found out they had been lied to about pot, and then said "hey they must have been lying to me about coke and smack too" and then they get hooked and fuck up their life. I can't respect any policy that doesn't tell the truth. Whether it be safe sex, or anti drug, give people the truth.

Mageth

When you have strictly religious parents that forbid all sorts of things not so much because they are bad for you but because they are sin, and you are a naturally independent, curious, and even rebellious type like I was, you tend to experiment with those things when you get old enough.

Not all my siblings did; it would seem personality has a large part to do with it. And, interestingly, those that didn't rebel as I did and experiment with the "sinful" side of life remain Christians, if not particularly "fundie".

openeyes

I think you can live a full life without the use of recreational chemicals. I also think that if you decide to see what all the interest is about it's best to wait until your brain growth has settled down (18?). The longer you wait, the more you may find other non-chemical highs of life.

Also, if you do decide to indulge, look at the cost/benefit of the various offerings. For me, deciding against nicotine seems like a no-brainer. Sure, there's evidence that nicotine can both pick you and and relax you at the same time, but addiction seems inevitable for most and the benefit is quickly outweighed by the discomfort of withdrawal. Plus the health costs of nicotine use, especially through tobacco are VERY high--1/3 of cancers, all those breathing problems, heart disease, eye and ear impairments, etc. It's real. I see it every day. You can live impaired for many expensive years, not enjoying life as you could be.

Alcohol seems to me something that can truly be enjoyed in moderation. As someone else mentioned (Godless Dave I believe) it may even add to health (although we can probably get the same benefit in other ways). I think people can certainly live full lives without alcohol also, but the right form at the right time can add some gusto.

Marijuana can probably be used "responsibly", but once again, more likely once you have a handle on other things in life. Also, I get concerned about people who have the time to drink (in greater than "healthy" portions) or get high often. Is your life really working? If you're partnered with someone else, are you truly doing your share of the sometimes unpleasant, routine parts of life that need attention or avoiding them with chemicals thereby shifting the load unfairly to someone else? If you can't honestly answer "yes" then maybe it's not responsible use.

You also have to be able to answer for your actions while using to be considered a responsible user.

The other recreational chemicals like cocaine, ecstasy, etc., don't have a good ratio in my eyes and I wouldn't consider them.

brighid

Ab_Normal,

Modeling appropriate behavior is a good idea. We enjoy a nice glass of wine with dinner a few nights a week and our son (age 9 also) has tasted beer and wine on special occassions. He thinks they taste gross and prefers either his favortie rootbeer or sparkling grape juice. We married into an Italian family so there is plenty of wine at every gathering and we also come home with a few bottles of it as gifts. My husband will not have a drink if he is driving (nor will I) and we do our best to instill that in our son.

I don't think we are puritanical about drinking, smoking and drug use. He happens to adore my younger brother who has serious substance abuse problems (and I tell him it's okay to love my brother, but simply use his mistakes as examples of what NOT to do with your life.) So has my sister, father, mother (to a lesser extent), granfather, aunt ranging from alcohol to methamphetamines to cocaine and heroine (and everything in between)... and we have discussed how much damage drug and alcohol abuse have done to their lives. Such as jail time for my brother and for my brother-in-law. A pretty messed up life for my sister, an abusive relationship for my aunt and permanent heart damage from heroine useage ... I don't try to scare him and get all grim-reaper like, but I try and be honest. He has asked me if I have tried drugs (pot a few times), have I gotten really drunk (yes), or smoked cigarettes (once and thought I would die afterward.) I have always answered honestly and hope that will provide a positive influence for him as he grows into the age where temptation is more prevelant.

I have told him that young kids and teenagers shouldn't do drugs because their brains are developing and the damage drugs can do is pretty significant. I have seen people change from kind, happy people to violent, mean jerks ... some of whom have wound of dead because of it.

I have also told him that I realize he will some day drink alcohol before he is legally able to and that we expect he act responsibly (call us no matter time of night for a ride, no questions asked kind of thing.) I am not sure how I would handle drug use, as a parent that really scares me ...

At this age they are rather compliant, but I realize his brain will develop more and more and he will begin to want to explore more for himself ... He is a pretty level headed kid and I am hoping once the teenage hormones kick in that he remains relatively level-headed.

I plan on keeping him busy with school, work, music, and/or sports so hopefully he won't have time to get into too much trouble.

I think the best parents can do is be honest and model good behavior. All we can do is teach them to be responsible with the choices they make and accept personal responsibility if those choices go bad.

Hope that helps ...

Brighid