Koyaanisqatsi

I hold no beliefs and I consider myself one of the freest thinkers around.

To "hold a belief" simply means to continue to accept as true regardless and in spite of the evidence, either to the contrary or in insufficient amounts/condition to establish the truth claim.

JB01

Because the former relies only on well-understood and verified principles of organic chemistry which can be observed in operation today, whereas the latter requires that we posit a complex supernatural entity whose existence would run completely counter to the sum of our experience.

Automaton

Odemus would make a dismal forensic scientist.

Forensic Scientist 1: "So the bullet was fired from across the room, and was from a..."
Odemus: "Why do you hold this claim above the claim that seventeen ethereal goblins, all working together, magically appeared from the ground (which is where all goblins come from) and placed the lump of metal in this person and killed them, only to whisk themselves away in a cloud of cream cheese?"

There may be other ways of verifying truth outside of one's five senses, but emotionally believing is not one of them.

Synaesthesia

There is no one such requirement but basically we want to judge what theory accounts for the phenonemon with the most conservatism, parsimony and depth.

Odemus

I would go with mostly ineffable, invisible, omnipotent, certainly King, who through his word spoke everything into existence for the purpose of demonstrating His eternal glory.

I've not been overwhelmed by any evidence showing that life evolved from a single cell into what we know today as the plant and animal kingdom.

I'm not sure what you are referring to but I certainly agree that by it's own definition a fictional creature doesn't exist.

For what it's worth I have never talked to a burning bush or seen the dead rise from their graves. I also wouldn't dare to presume that the earth was created in six days or that the universe is 6,000 years old. I fail to see why I must view the Genesis creation account in literal terms. I have absolutely no problem believing the universe to be incredibly old or the earth to be billions and billions of years old. I also have no reason to believe that conflicts with the Bible. Please explain why this should force me to dismiss Jesus because as of yet I haven't found a reason to.

Feel free to remain overwhelmed, I will remain an unbeliever because as of yet I haven't seen it.

Assuming there can only be one single explanation for the origin of everything then they can't all be true.
I believe in the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible because to me it is most reasonable to put my faith there.

How have you determined what is the 'simplest' explanation for the origin of life. As I understand it, both abiogenisis and supernatural creation are empirically unprovable.

Thankyou for clarifying that.I was under the assumption that there was a more unified philosphy among atheists.

Well I probably don't hold beliefs considered too radically different from you or anyone else here regarding the nature of the universe. The major conflicts would be:

1) I see God as the catalyst for the origin of all matter and life.

2) I believe God created mankind separate from the animal kingdom.

What I know about God is what has been revealed to me through scripture. I don't claim to have ever met God in a tangible sense.

What?

What if God can partially be comprehended?

My apologies, I misread what you were trying to convey. You may now return to your fence.

Where exactly can these verified principles of organic chemistry that demonstrate life forming from the inanimate be observed?

Jobar

From Goliath:
"Ah, ok. Here is a complete and total list of things that I believe regarding the supernatural:

Nothing.


quote:
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How do you consider yourself a free thinker if you have no beliefs?

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I wasn't aware that a freethinker need have a belief on any given topic.

Sincerely,

Goliath"

Goliath, the Zen Atheist!

Odemus, what Goliath is pointing out here is that we- most all of us- do not feel that we *have* to hold a firm and certain answer to any question, including big ones. We are humble enough to say when we don't know something.

On the other hand, we are skeptical when we are *told* something which seems to us to be contrary to the way the world works. We don't believe in the Tooth Fairy, or hobbits, or Willie Wonka, or Jehovah- except of course as fictional characters in various tales.

There is, IMO, no Truth available to us humans. We are incapable of talking about absolutes in meaningful ways. Oh, there are lots of truths with the small t- even some that approach being big-T Truths; Newton's theories of gravity, Einstein on relativity, things like that. And we do indeed seek for Truth- I think that a Unified Field Theory, the penultimate step to a Theory of Everything, may be found before I die.

But we have found that it is quite possible to live good and fulfilling lives without knowing an ultimate Truth. As long as we try to avoid *untruths* we do very well- better, I'd say, than anyone who insists that they know the One Final Answer, in the face of vast evidence to the contrary.

Goliath

Odemus,

As Yoda once said: "That is why you failed."

Sincerely,

Goliath

(Edited to add a colon. Hmmm....would that make me something of an anti-proctologist? )

[ June 18, 2002: Message edited by: Goliath ]</p>

Goliath

lol! I guess I never thought of it that way.

*imagines a book entitled "Zen and the way of the Atheist."*

Hmmmm...

Sincerely,

Goliath

himynameisPwn

Odemus, significant proof for God would be reproducable experiments that prove god exists.

A good one, would be locating the soul. Locate the soul and trap it in a jar, then find out its chemistry or energy.

Anything I think about the origin of life, is either the default position(i.e. life was randomly created because the universe is huge so the chances arent all that bad), or based on reproducable experiments. The thing about creation of the universe theories is that it goes so far beyond my understanding, I dont even try to comprehend them. Im sure they have been peer reviewed and critisized, unlike religion, so I can safely assume they are somewhat on the right direction to the truth, but I have no opinion of the big bang and such.

Odemus

I didn't fail, I corrected my understanding of atheism. I have no problem admitting my fallability as it is part of what makes me who I am.