Magus55

No, its inspired by God. God guided the authors in writing it - He didn't physically pen down the words.

winstonjen

Allegedly. And even if it was, how is it inerrant and perfectly reliable?

Rhaedas

How does this inspiration play into the free will of those writers? Or in other words, would they have written the same things had no deity inspired them? If no, then what happened to god's no interference policy? If yes, then why invoke a deity that wasn't needed to write the words?

my dog earl

Excuse me for butting in here but Magus55........you never did get back to me on that Lucifer story. You were going to get back to me on it.......like where did it come from, as the story of this fallen Angel doesn't seem to be in the bible as Christians seem to like telling the story.

You did your homework didn't you?

Clutch

CJD, debating some of the theists who show up here involves debating the things they actually say -- not the things they might say were they more principled and less ignorant with respect to their own holy text. And some of these theists hold loony-tunes literalist views. Engaging them thus involves engaging ridiculous readings of the text: namely, theirs.

In your depth and subtlety, that much is surely obvious to you.

So it is unclear why you would lay the "ridiculous reading of the text" at the door of those who engage it, as opposed to those who promulgate it.

No doubt there are also some atheists who take the least charitable interpretation to belong to all theists. But your inference from "many of you" to "skeptical of the supposed rational basis of atheism" would be a clear non-sequitur even were your charge of uncharitability not largely false.

Jeremiah

I�ll give your question some thought. However, I would make some personal thoughts.
First off, I am a man and I am fallible in my understandings. I am not all knowing, so I do not hold myself forward as knowing all truth. Yet, I do desire to seek truth.

Second, either the Bible is true or it is not. If it is not, then it is useless for spiritual edification. Therefore, if I am to get spiritual edification from it, I must take it at face value. Otherwise, reading it is no better than reading a novel or a history book. By taking it at face value, I gain spiritual benefit from it and I believe others can too.

If you believe the spiritual world is nonsense, why bother with the Bible? If you are right, as Paul states, faith is useless and Christians are to be pitied.

I Corinthians

13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

Is it all a Con job? If you accept the traditions of the Church, just about every author of the NT died a bad death for their beliefs. I don�t know too many con men willing to die for something. Then, again if it is all a con job, Christians are to be pitied more than all men.

But what if it is truth?

Kosh

Unfortunately, Xians have this nasty tendancy of forcing their viewpoints on others. They go around the world telling everybody their ridiculous bronze age mythology is true. They impede progress. We have to stop that.

This is simply not true. It is a claim which has been spread by apologists such as Lee Strobel and Josh McDowell, and has been shown to be a lie. Here is a linksfor you.

Make sure you read this!

In short, non of the early Xians who died for their beliefs were in a position to actually know if those beliefs were true.

Likewise, are you willing then to admit truth to the beliefs of the heavens gate cult (they all killed themselves for their beliefs, remember?) or to the followers of David Koresh, or those of Jim Jones (are you old enough to remember the The Peoples Temple in Guyana?), or for that matter the Islamic martyrs of sept 11? They all died horible deaths for their beliefs? Does that validate those beliefs?

What if monkeys grow wings and fly? Until you show us some evidence, it's just speculation and mythology. If it were true, it should stand on it's own.

It does not.

BioBeing

So we are spiritually challenged, are we? Wonder why???

Science, then, is the antithesis of religion? Which is exactly why the religous right is trying to force the trivialization and marginalisation of science teaching in schools, and why they must be countered.

orac

So you want a list of 67 books that discuss atheism, at which point you'll admit that it's obviously true because there are 67 books that were written by different people?

Or will you then decide that 67 atheist books that refer to each other are all wrong, but 66 theist books that refer to each other are all helping prove each other correct? To be honest, I hope it's the latter, because I'ld love to see you argue how your logic applies to the bible and nothing else.

I do want to know one thing, though: are you prepared to admit that you can not provide any evidence outside the bible for the validity of the bible? If you won't do that, will you instead answer the original question and provide evidence for the bible's truth, instead of giving the bible quotes that you were explicitly asked not to give? Just curious...

Koyaanisqatsi

I see. So, you agree with my assessment of the illogic of CJD's presupposition.

Thanks.

Oh, and while we're at it (and you brought up Paul's self-contradictory doubletalk), I know that your god has made your intelligence anathema to your salvation, but could you try to see through god's foolishness for one second and explain to us what the purpose would be of inspiring a book about salvation that only those who are already saved can understand?

Don't you find that just a tad pointless? If you're already saved prior to reading anything (and this is predetermined by god), why would you need to read anything at all? If you do or do not read it, will you not be predetermined to be saved somehow?

Does irrelevant pointlessness just give your god a giggle or something?