Viti

Well, she has her own website and makes lots of movies...sure doesn't look unhappy to me.

luvluv, she was "assertive" enough to go on an expose show and possibly damage her earnings but not enough to say "no" or refuse to take her clothes off or NOT suck cock? Something's wrong with this picture you are painting.

Silent Acorns

Christ-on-a-stick,

Luvluv drew an analogy about the effect of being in a porn film has on one's sexual health based on his experience that the making of hip-hop videos decreased his interest in hip-hop due to the 10 hour shoots.

My first thought on this is that the reason that you have 100 takes of the same shot in a music video is that the production values are very high (in a dollars per finished minute sense), but the porn industry is on the opposite end of the scale (or at least I think so).

In your experience, do porn directors make you do the same shot over and over and over again until everything is just right?

Viti

I agree that removing the stigma would be helpful...but why didn't this woman (or any) who feel they need help WALK OUT and go to another producer? It seems a lot easier than going on TV and if a producer can't keep actresses they will go out of business.

christ-on-a-stick

Silent Acorns - (love your handle BTW)
NO. In fact, they try to *minimize* having to reshoot parts as it tends to impede a "natural-flowing" scene. It has to be done sometimes for whatever reason - bloopers, equipment/lighting screwup, background noise - but it's pretty minimal. Getting the still photos (for boxcover etc.) is much more time consuming and "tiring", but in the same way as regular modeling (holding poses, hot lights etc.)

luvluv

coas:

No, that's probably true. It is my subjective belief that most of the men and women in these films are suffering from some form of emotional trauma from participating in these films and/or had emotional trauma which lead them into participating in these films.

Lady Shea:

I think that is a commendable step, but do you think Belladona is an isolated case? Do you think you are likely to know if you are currently viewing other Belladonas? Would you have ever known about her if not for this news story?

beastmaster & Jamie L:

Jamie L. sez:

beastmaster sez:

I don't have much use for stigmatizing anything. I want porn to be understood by everyone. Stigmatizing something won't do anyone any moral good in the end. Stigmatizing something generally makes it more mysterious and attractive to people. It doesn't help anyone understand any of the moral issues involved or to make any morally mature decisions.

I think people should understand what really goes on in the business. I think, frankly, that it is much more of an abusive affair than any of it's apologists are ever likely to admit. A couple of you said that you wouldn't mind your daughters being involved in pornography. Pardon me, but I think that's bunk. None of you would have any problem with some random, selfish, a-hole, who you would not ever want your daughter to have anything to do with in real life, having rough, unfeeling sex with your daughter, (while she was contractually obligated to pretend she was enjoying every bit of it), with the whole thing ending with a money shot and with your daughter smiling into the camera with some jerk's semen on her face? If any of you actually have daughters I would like for you to picture her in that scenario and tell me with a straight face you wouldn't have any problem with her doing this.

This is what pornography is. This is what you are defending. And every girl and boy in these films is somebody's son or daughter.

I totally agree with Jamie L. that it is the performers refusal to admit that they need help which is ultimately keeping the industry so abusive. I'll extend Jamie's comments, however, and say that I believe the reason that so many performers are not willing to say that they need help is because they don't want to give any credence to the notion that there might be something wrong or unhealthy about participating in pornography.

Barney Gumble

Why, stop masturbating of course! It's easy - just deny sexual thoughts.

Like, duh!

Silent Acorn said:

From my experience, pretty much every adult film involves multiple "shots".

christ-on-a-stick

luvluv,

Thanks for summing up - I think I'm at the end of the road here.
Thanks for being honest about the fact that this is your subjective opinion.
...as you understand it, no?
...While you have already admitted that YOU don't understand what really goes on in the business (firsthand!)
BTW, I'd be offended by your not-so-subtle accusation of dishonesty *IF* I had the energy... but alas, I find myself not really caring anymore.
To be totally frank, luvluv, this whole paragraph screams "projection" to me. All the guys are "random, selfish a-holes and "jerks", and geez louise, it's just not possible that some girls might actually *like* "getting a facial". SEX IS NOT DIRTY. I don't think you really accept that.

I think I am done here unless there is something I have missed, although if anything else comes to mind I'll pop back in.

luvluv

Lady Shea:

You really think a picture from her website is a better way to determine here psychological well being than her own stories of abuse, breakdown, and suicide attempts?

My guess is she was as passive in the interview process as she is on sets. She didn't seek out Diane Sawyer, they sought Belladona out. They followed 3 girls in the business for three years. One of the girls happened to be Belladonna. She was the person they chose to follow. She assented to be interviewed. I doubt she was really thinking through the financial costs of the decision. Part of the point of the story was that she didn't put a lot of thought into a lot of the things she was doing. But I don't think it took any radical assertiveness on her part to participate in this interview. It seemed to me like she was happy to have somebody interested in her problems.

They purposely pick people who are the least capable of being that assertive and who can most easily be pressured into going beyond their boundaries. People who have histories of abuse can have a hard time being assertive. Does that make it okay to take advantage of them? If I pick out a girl because of her emotional weakness and her likely susceptibility to my manipulation, does that make manipulating her more or less moral? Yes, ultimately, if she had the strength of character she could have walked away. But she didn't, and the producers knew AHEAD OF TIME that she didn't, and that was why she, and many others like her, are chosen in the first place.

Viti

Okay, I am done with this conversation.

Silent Acorns

I think luvluv's best point is on the subject of the ethics of deriving benefit from another's suffering. The best analogy I can think of is to compare the porn industry with third world labour (in terms of how we should react to it as consumers).

I consider it unethical to take advantage of the desparation of the poor to get cheap clothes, toys, etc. As a result I try to minimize my purchases of such products, even though I don't know what the conditions are at the particular factory where a given product was made. To me, it's enough to know that many factories are awful and that most are sub-western-standards. Until the situation improves, I'll continue to do this.

How does this relate to the porn industry? As with third world labour, we don't know the conditions under which an individual porn film was made, but we do know that the conditions can be brutal. Does it therefore make sense to minimize our consumption of porn?

To me this hinges on just how prevelent abuse (of all forms) is in the porn industry. Is Belladonna the exception or the norm? I have no idea. Is the exploitation of porn talent by producers on par with sweat shops? When one buys $100 of porn, how much goes to the actors and how much to porduces and distributors?

To put it another way, would you be willing to pay 50% more for porn if you knew that the actors were well treated (unionized, tested, not coerced...)?

By the way, my opinon is that as long as exploitation is relatively common in porn industry, I will personally boycott it. My standard is this: so long as people (mostly women) feel compelled to enter the sex trades for no other reason than "It's the only way to pay the bills" I will not support it with my dollar vote. That said, I don't think it should be illegal (and that includes prostitution).