hezekiah jones

Haha

[ May 13, 2002: Message edited by: hezekiahjones ]</p>

RufusAtticus

Tricia, look at what you said again. You are basing your view of how Christians view evolution upon the Christians that attend your school. It's really no surprise that your fellow students don't accept evolution considering the environment they are being taught in. As you get older, you will find that your school is not reprehensive of the diversity that is the Body of Christ. What you are going to need to do is look beyond your classmates. Then you will see a surprising number of Christians, not only accept evolution, but support it in science.

My fiancée is a member of the Church of God (TN) and accepts evolution.

My advisor is a Christian, and her life has been devoted to studying the dynamics of evolution and genes.

I interact with a lot of Christians everyday, and I only encounter creationists in Internet discussions.

Religious universities like Baylor, Southern Methodist University, and Emory teach evolution and actively support the study of it.

I think that, as you become older and learn about the world around you, you will learn how narrow your views are right now. That's just part of growing up.

Here is a link to statements from religious leaders supporting evolution.
<a href="http://www.hcc.hawaii.edu/~pine/Phil100/religevol.html" target="_blank">Religion and Evolution</a>

Here is one man’s letter to his pastor concerning his church’s reluctance to discuss evolution.
<a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/may00.html" target="_blank">talk.origins POTM, May 2000</a>

We are giving you a ton of resources, and I hope you can get to all of them. Even if they don’t convince you of the failings of creationism, at least you might understand science a little better.

~~RvFvS~~
P.S. Would you mind asking your family if they know any Christians who accept evolution? I'd be interesting in hearing their response.

RufusAtticus

I clicked on that site and this little gem popped up.



If I was a fundy, I'd be outraged that a "Christian" site advertized such smutty things as Fox Sports.

~~RvFvS~~

hezekiah jones

Because sound and light are both measured according to the shape of their wavelengths. When you listen to your radio you are hearing sound waves that have been converted to electric impulses and transmitted on the same electromagnetic spectrum that carries light waves, microwaves, and x-rays, all of which are measured by the frequency of their vibrations.

That's why there are so many different types of telescope. Each is designed to detect energy from various parts of the spectrum from radio waves (low frequency) to gamma waves (high frequency).

It's also why you get sunburned, because ultraviolet rays, which are of a higher frequency than visible light, are just another portion of the EMS. So there is hard evidence for all of this that you can personally experience, otherwise your microwaveable popcorn wouldn't pop.

<a href="http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l1/emspectrum.html" target="_blank">Measuring the Electromagnetic Spectrum</a>

<a href="http://www.dustbunny.com/afk/howdo/redshift/redshift.htm" target="_blank">What is Red Shift?</a>

Godless Dave

Tricia, <a href="http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/4650_statements_from_religious_orga_3_13_2001.asp" target="_blank">here</a> is a group of statements from major religious organizations supporting the scientific truth of evolutionary theory. It includes statements from the national Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopal, and Presbyterian organizations.

I'm sure the people running your school claim to speak for all Christians, but the truth is they are a small minority of the Christians in the world. They are also telling you lies and depriving you of a real education to further their own ends. The day you figure this out will probably be very painful, but it's something you'll have to do to be able to function in the real world.

Godless Dave

And on beneficial mutations: one example that I know of in humans is the ability to digest cow's milk. The ability of some humans (mostly of northern European descent) to do so comes from a mutation.

Lizard

Tricia wrote:
Tricia, you need to get out more. I'm sorry to hear that science education in your school is so backward that your teacher shows you "Dr. Dino" tapes and calls them science, and that every one of your classmates is being cheated of scientific literacy in favor of religious indoctrination.

I hope you do go to TalkOrigins.org and search for answers to your questions. It's much easier (and you get more attention) coming here and asking others to spoon-feed you, but it would mean much more to you, I'm sure, if you searched for and found the answers yourself. Try the 500 section of the library, too. Summer's a good time for reading.

[ May 13, 2002: Message edited by: Lizard ]</p>

Tricia

That's from one small part of the United States. I'm talking about the rest of the world.The creationist ideas seem to confined mostly to parts of the United States and seem to exist principally for political purposes, not religious ones. In the rest of the world they are very rare and in such small numbers that they can never get together and form a community.

Any statistics to back this up?

Note that I called myself a Christian for over fifty years and in all my life I have never met anyone, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or, as it was put at Religious Instruction at school, `Not catered for' who did not accept that evolution was an accurate description of the living world.
Then could it just be your part of the world that’s different?

We know all this because we see stars in all these stages. If you know the mass of a star you can look at its spectrum and say where it is on the path. We know the mass of the sun, we can measure its spectrum. Bingo. 5 billion years old today, another billion before it is a red giant, another few hundred million and then a white dwarf.

You would only know you are right for sure if you were there at the time of the big bang, correct?

Tricia, look at what you said again. You are basing your view of how Christians view evolution upon the Christians that attend your school. It's really no surprise that your fellow students don't accept evolution considering the environment they are being taught in.

Obviously you don’t know my class. They ask questions in Bible class when they disagree with it, such as issues with divine healing and miracles and stuff, but they’ve not once asked questions about evolution other than “how the heck can they believe that?!”

Then you will see a surprising number of Christians, not only accept evolution, but support it in science.

Meaning that creationists are only nimrods who can’t back up their beliefs with facts? I have issues with that. You would’ve thought that if this were the case that all creationists would be permanently shunned for their imbecility and lack of independence.

Religious universities like Baylor, Southern Methodist University, and Emory teach evolution and actively support the study of it.

Baylor? Maybe there, but I don’t think that’s the case with Mary-Hardin Baylor, the branch of Baylor that teaches theology.

I think that, as you become older and learn about the world around you, you will learn how narrow your views are right now. That's just part of growing up.

“Maybe one day, you will grow up to be smart, and not waste time on a fictitious god.”

We are giving you a ton of resources, and I hope you can get to all of them. Even if they don’t convince you of the failings of creationism, at least you might understand science a little better. J

Thank you for the many resources. I might have to go through this entire thread again when finals are over so I can comprehend them.

P.S. Would you mind asking your family if they know any Christians who accept evolution? I'd be interesting in hearing their response.

I asked them and they said my uncle probably does because he only became a Christian about 6 months ago. My dad said probably half the church I go to is,they just don’t say anything. My mom also said that more people than we think could be but we don’t know it, just because I guess.

Each is designed to detect energy from various parts of the spectrum from radio waves (low frequency) to gamma waves (high frequency).

Yeah, took me awhile last year to understand all the lengths of the light waves and why I couldn’t see them if they were too long or too short. I think I ticked my teacher off into leaving because I asked so many questions.

otherwise your microwaveable popcorn wouldn't pop.

BLASPHEMY!

They are also telling you lies and depriving you of a real education to further their own ends. The day you figure this out will probably be very painful, but it's something you'll have to do to be able to function in the real world.

Gee, thanks. I think I’m ok for now anyways.

And on beneficial mutations: one example that I know of in humans is the ability to digest cow's milk. The ability of some humans (mostly of northern European descent) to do so comes from a mutation.

And how do you figure that it had to be a mutation?

~Tricia

RufusAtticus

Tricia,

Well, it's probably a little hard to ask questions when your asleep from all the videos you watch.

There are two types of creationists. There are the "professional" creationists that make a living touring the country and writing books about the failure of evolution, geology, etc. It's nothing but dishonest rhetoric.

Then there are the people, like you, who hear this and think it's true. Most of these people have never been exposed to science to any depth and thus don't know what it actually says. In many cases these people have been blatantly lied to.

I find it hard to fault a person like you for being a creationist. You really haven’t had a chance to be exposed to actual science. I find it rather encouraging that you are asking us questions. Did you feel there was something awry in the state of your education?

Just to let you know. Baylor has the <a href="http://www.truettseminary.net/" target="_blank">George W. Truett Theological Seminary</a>. <a href="http://www.umhb.edu/" target="_blank">Mary-Hardin Baylor</a> is a separate school.

Edited to add:

Here are two links to lists of creationist schools: <a href="http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-225.htm" target="_blank">ICR's</a> and <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/tools/colleges.asp" target="_blank">AIG's</a>. You will notice that there is not a major college (including MHBU) on either list. No telling how many are unaccredited. These lists aren't exhaustive, although I doubt they'd be missing a major college if it belonged.

I apologize, I should have been more careful with my words. I did not intend my comment to refer to your faith. It was meant to reflect that as you get older you will understand that the world and even your community are a lot more diverse than you probably realize right now.

Now that you’ve talked to your parents about Christians and Evolution, do you still think that the acceptance of evolution is rather absent in the Body of Christ?

~~RvFvS~~

[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: RufusAtticus ]

[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: RufusAtticus ]</p>

Daggah

In most reasonable places, they ARE shunned for their imbecility. Fundy land in America is not representative of 'reasonable places.'