Salmon of Doubt

And the proof that this is due to God and not coincidence is?

If this kind of thing happened all the time, outside the probability predicted by chance, then maybe that would be evidence of God. But one isolated second hand case from a soure only vaguely remembered? I need more than that to be convinced.

GeoTheo

Personally, I don't think anyone can be convinced of anything against their will. And I doubt any materialist will ever be at a loss for explaining the unknown with plausible hypotheses.

lpetrich

David Hume asked this very question 250 years ago -- where did the miracles go? And Richard Carrier has asked that same question more recently.

Consider someone often hailed as a very holy woman, Mother Teresa. The only MT miracle that the Vatican has been willing to endorse so far is someone's cured stomach cancer, and even that "miracle" is questionable.

But by comparison to the miracles attributed to many medieval saints, MT's alleged miracle seems very paltry.

Did MT ever speak in several languages without having to learn them?
Did MT ever calm any storms?
Did MT ever miraculously fill an empty oil can with oil or recharge a dead battery?
Did MT ever miraculously desalinate seawater?
Did MT ever point out any monster-containing trees?
Did a crab ever return a lost crucifix to MT?
Did MT ever cure blindness?
Did MT ever strike blind anyone who stole from her?
Did MT ever cause an earthquake in a town that blasphemed her?

All of these miracles have been attributed to St. Francis Xavier and St. Genevieve, two of the more notable saints of past centuries, though I substituted oil cans and batteries because oil lamps are not very common nowadays. And turning to the Bible,

Did MT ever miraculously create any big piles of bread and fish?
Did MT ever raise anyone from the dead?
Did MT ever cure anyone with magical spit therapy?
Did MT ever walk on water?
Did MT ever turn water into wine?
Did MT ever zap some Missionaries of Charity employee who kept too much for herself?
Did MT ever turn some sticks into snakes?
Did MT ever sic some bears on some kids who teased her about being a wrinkled old hag?
Did MT ever have a competition with some Hindu priests about whose god was better at making a rain of fire from on high?

I will concede that MT had worked two miracles:

Creating an image of herself as a great humanitarian.

Causing an inverse bread-and-fish miracle: the disappearance of much Missionaries of Charity money.

GeoTheo

imo, I have no reason to doubt the miracles in the Bible, but as far as modern day miracles I don't hink they are big concern to conservative Evangelical Christians that are not Pentecostal.
Maybe if Helen reads this she can give her opinion. I don't hear many sermons on miracles. Also many liberal Christians think the accounts in the Bible are exagerations and not the main point.
I have heard about people getting healed and things that could be interpreted as coincidences.
The thing with miracles is they don't do anything to cause any kind of personal growth or build character. They are just kind of a "Wow!" factor. I admit that people can misinterpret things aso.

EvolvEarth

The reason to doubt the miracles in the Bible is because there is no evidence supporting them. It's like saying that the boogey man exists and gives certain people hemorrhoids. There is no evidence against that, but there is no evidence for it, so why even believe in it? Do you believe in the boogey man? If not, why not? There's no reason to doubt the boogey man's presence since no one has proof he doesn't exist.

GeoTheo

Well, now that you mention it that would explain my mysterious case of hemorrhoids!

SimplyAtheistic

Nice job of dodging the question.
Jake

SimplyAtheistic

Its a good thing most athiests can be convinced if evidence supports a certain view. Almost all evidence discredits christianity, so being the logical thinkers, we accept the side with the most evidence. Most christians on the other hand, want so badly to think they will live after death, they put blind faith into an absurd religion that should have died out years ago and hopefully will die out soon.
Jake

GeoTheo

Don't hold your breath. 2003 and counting!

SimplyAtheistic

Yes, far too long. But now that our science and level of thinking is much greater, I don't see christianity being dominate for much longer. Hopefully within the next two decades its following will disappear completely.
Jake