Family Man

Don, agreed on all points.

Radcliffe Emerson

I asked my friend who had attended the Methodist seminary this past summer about what he thought happened to Jesus based on what he'd been taught. (He has yet to respond to my query about his sources, by the way).

He said from what he learned, he thinks Jesus just screwed up. He went to Jerusalem during Passover to force some kind of confrontation, hoping the masses would join him. They didn't, he was arrested, and executed, end of story.
Which would fit into the idea he might have been a lunatic, albeit a very charismatic one, like some we've seen in our times recently that got large groups of people to follow them.

Vinnie

RE, Jesus had followers. But he was crucified and they were not. As Fredriksen argues, this needs to be explained.

Vinnie

Bobzammel

You know, I've always thought that the Gospels were rather Roman-friendly. My personal belief is that the writers of the NT were for the most part, gentiles-Romans perhaps. Not alleged eyewitnesses.

Family Man

A few years ago the Heaven Gate's cult committed suicide in the belief they'd be transported to a spaceship. This too needs explanation.

In other words, just because Jesus had followers it doesn't follow that he was God.

Bobzammel

What about his comments on Corban and his agreement with the commandment telling us to love our father and mother? Hate can be an idiom meaning to love less. Many sober reconstructions have thus interpreted Jesus' words. Its kind of strange that a man who told us to love our enemies would tells us to hate our parents--those nearest and dearest to us and at the same time endorse the commandment telling us to love them. Doesn't that seem strange to you too??

Yes, but how does this square with Jesus stating that everybody who leaves their family will be rewarded(Shortly after the dialogue with the rich man)?

Vinnie

I wasn't clear on the point of my post but I'll post a citation from Fredriksen later that will clear up what I meant. Iwasn't even anywheres close to saying "Jesus was God" or "because his followers were martyred he was God.": Those concepts have nothing to do with what I was talking about. More later though.

Vinnie

Radcliffe Emerson

My feeling on the NT is that's is basically an attack on the Jews.
I just find it mostly to be anti-Semitic in flavor.
Some of the harsh feelings toward Jews over the centuries have been in part due to Christian beliefs, and it just seems to me whoever wrote the books that ended up in the published NT were trying to find a way to get people to leave the Jewish faith.
That's just my opinion, however.

Bobzammel

Interestingly this has led to a sort of "Conspiracy theory" that Christianity was created as a Roman attempt to undermine Judaism. However there are numerous problems with this, especially the Book of Revelation, which paints Rome as totally evil in symbolic laungauge(The fact that Revelation clearly potrays the wicked city as Rome has led many to use it to attack the Roman Catholics).
One thing is for sure, the authors of the NT were definetly not very pious Jews. Their frequent errors in interpeting the OT and their heavy use of the "Gentile bible" the LXX is evidence at that.

Family Man

Fair enough, and thanks for understanding why I might interpret your remarks the way I did.