Godless Dave

Gemma, please quote the statements in this thread which you consider attacks.

Gemma Therese

There you go, Godless Dave.

Gemma Therese

Ensign Steve

That looks more like an atheist-flavored attack on christianity than a protestant-flavored attack on catholocism. JMHO.

Godless Dave

How is that an attack at all? It reads to me like an opinion about how the Catholic description of Mary was developed, presented in an entirely respectful manner. Or do you consider any implication that theological concepts have human origins an attack?

Starboy

Gemma, it looks like your Christian intolerance is showing. JTVrocher has an opinion about your religion that you do not share. That is not an attack on your religion, it is his constitutional right to hold and express his opinion. This same constitution protects your right to think that your stupid religion may actually be relevant and that JTVrocher is stupid. The fact that I think your religion is stupid is my opinion, it is my right to hold that opinion and on this forum it is my privilege to share it with you. If you don’t understand this or can’t abide by it, perhaps you need to move to a more intolerant country that requires all its citizens to belong to the state sponsored religion.

Democracy, Christians just don’t get it!

Starboy

Amos

The problem is that Catholicism and protestanism are pretty much opposite to each other and are not even close to being the same game. When they score we think they are in hell and when we score they think we are idiots because we are most unlike them. The irony here is that they want us to become like them and we know that they can't become like one of us (or they would have told the others about their error).

Amos

Bullshit Abe, I've told you more than once and then you respond that we should not comment on each other (or something like that). I should tell you here that we have an entire dictionary devoted to Mary because she is very enigmatic and beyond the reach of protestants or they would have 'raped' her many times.

Here we go but remember that the bible is metaphor and that the spiritual mesage is first and foremost the aim of scriptures. If so, we can throw this wide open and go for the spiritual message and there you will be left arguing against your own physical (historic) interpretation that caused you to become a non-believer to begin with. In other words, my defence will not match your interpretation and therefore is of little or no use in this tread. But I'll present it just to prove my point.

So first of all, theotokos means God bearer and since God is spirtual we are not talking about fucking here (down with your Y chromosome idea). Christ was conceived in the conscious mind of Joseph via a dream which was the equivalent of the "visitation" in the womb of man (woman) here personified with Mary (the Annunciation is most important in Catholicism but not part protestant theology; the significance of the Visitation can be found in the abundance of artistic expression we have on this).

Bernadette's message "I am the Immaculate Conception" proved that God is guiding the church and since that time it became accepted in its dogmatic constitution. It always was a necessary truth because the the virgin birth was not a physical birth but just the juxtaposition of a non-virgin rebirth that protestants so much seek as evidence of salvation wherein they can never find closure.

The only place where you get close is that Mary is our woman (female) identity or TOL. Our TOL, unlike our TOK, is the blueprint after which man is procreated and this blueprint is possibly modified by our TOK each generation to become part of the TOL of the next generation (virtues and sins of our fathers for generations to come). So then, afterwards, when in heaven, we crown Mary queen of heaven and earth in the Assumption and subsequent Coronation (none of which is protestant to prove that this never was, never is, and never will be part of their life). If you can make this shift, to have Mary as your mother is to have heaven on earth and allow Mary (who prepresents our soul or intuition) to be in charge of our own destiny.

Sabine Grant

Salut Amos! how do we know of the existence of Mary? the 4 Gospels... however the theological concept of the Immaculate Conception is not described as such in the Gospels. Is it possible Amos that the evangelical christians who do not abide to the Immaculate Conception theology are not necessarly in error? The same applies to other terms such as Trinity or Rapture which are interpretations of the biblical texts.
When theology gets involved, we have to be prudent to consider that theological concepts may be wrong.
How important was it that Mary was sinless? if Christ is divine , should it matter whom he was born from?

Infidelettante

GT, should you ever have something say to me I would appreciate you saying it to me.

As for my post. There is a lot of nonsense posted here. I proudly claim my portion of it. To say that my post about Mary is Protestant-flavored is an utter example of it.

Had the Protestants used Mary to sqeeze billions out of their fellow Protestants I would gladly call them on it. Seeing as this thread is about Mary I find it odd that your only comment about my post attributes to me some Protestant sympathies. It seems to raise the question of anti-Protestant bigotry in one who is so quick to see the other kind.

BTW Do you agree with my views on the debasement of Mary by the Catholic church? I point out, again, that you chose not to comment on them.
JT

Amos

Hello to you Sabine, yes, Mary is very enigmatic but the liberation of Mary (after we have properly identified her as the "womb of God") brings Mary to the gates of purgatory where she is the head waitress at the royal banquet in Cana and from there will take us, as she did Jesus, thru purgatory and into heaven. The problem is that Mary is enigmatic and will not be 'fooled' or fornicated (as Boethuis put it) because she will become Eve instead (and we'll get a scorpion instead of a fish). Hence the "virginity" metaphor.

It is very important that Mary is sinless because she is to be our mother as well. Hence Perpetual Virginity. She becomes part of the Trinity in heaven where the HS is redundant. I mean, would't we look stupid to pray the HS down from heaven if we are in heaven? Beside who needs the HS with the mind of God? Rapture is just the rapture of our ego identity at rebirth eg. 'two' men on the roof, 'two' women or here or there but never 'one' man and 'one' woman (see the connection).

I am not really interested in called evangelical christians wrong but they should at least examine their beliefs and not remain stuck in same rut until they die.