Bree

<a href="http://www.ups.com" target="_blank">UPS</a>, of course .

Stephen T-B

Sighhswolf done good.
(I'm ashamed to say that I've access to the BOM but have only flicked through it enough to note that it is written in King James-style English, with 'thee's and 'thou's and 'art's and 'yea's, like you know an angel's talking to you because its language is kinda Biblical and archaic.)
Wow! I've sometimes thought, How can people believe crap like that? Then the truth dawned: there aren’t degrees of irrationality when it comes to religious beliefs, and that it was culltural conditioning which made me think thatt the virgin birth, miraculous raisings of the dead and Spontaneous Resurrection were more sensible than Mohammed or Joseph Smith receiving divine revelations via angels.

[ September 27, 2002: Message edited by: Stephen T-B ]</p>

Vibr8gKiwi

You're not alone. Like Christians and the Bible, most Mormons haven't read the BOM (and almost none have read it critically). You can hardly blame them though--as Mark Twain noted, the book is 'chloroform in print'.

[ September 27, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ]</p>

Kosh

So let me get this straight...

Ancient Jews came here in 600 BC. They lived for thousands of years (since that implies multiple, let's give 'em 2000). Then they all died out. That would make it about 1400 AD. Then in the next 92 years, what was left of them diversified into the many varied different tribes of the Americas. Also, there is no evidence of this Jewish culture in the Americas. Let's add in that they completely lost all traces of the OT, or the Jewish rituals and laws.

Could somebody cue the music to "The Sting"?

sighhswolf

Yea kinda "Twilight Zone" stuff huh?
The kicker is that Brigham Young supposedly had a personal "revelation" from god concerning the creation story.
He presented this revelation to the "saints"
in his 90's I think, and the LDS general Assembly
had it removed from all church literature and struck from educational material on Mormonism.
Young said paraphrased....
There were many gods before the earth was formed
and there were two (2) head god guys Elohim and Jehovah, and a crapload of heavenly hosts.
It seems that Elohim said something to the effect of look at all these worlds we have created (we meaning the head gods and the heavenly hosts) we have done well (self congradulatory back patting)
and as a reward for his help we are going to send Micheal ( the ArchAngel)to gather life from all our other worlds
the best animals and plants and bring them together for the crowning event of our creations.
We will give Micheal the task of creating this last world and if he does well, we will reward him with his creation as a home.
He did as instructed and so Micheal the ArchAngel
was awarded with the earth as his home and was allowed to take a female with him of his choice.
So Young said that Micheal the ArchAngel was in fact known as Adam, the first man.
This name "adam" was always given to the very first man on a new world.
Because Adam,Micheal was a god in his own right and had created numerous other worlds, he was and is the only god with whom we as humans had ever known here on earth.
Therefore Adam is and was our(mankinds) father and GOD and we should be worshipping him as our divine father figure and our only god.

Young stated a premise thought slightly obscured in religious mysticism, that is becoming widely accepted as a "first cause" of life on earth.
The theory of "seeding" from outside sources.
He had planned to reveal other "revelations", but he said publically that mankind was not ready to hear the entire truth of the creation story.
And that it would not be accepted or fully understood by inhabitants of the earth in the late 1800's, it would be beyond their capability to grasp.
He never gave the rest of his revelation to the "saints" and what he did say above was struck from church records and was disavowed by the General Authorities who ran the church.

There is speculation by many that Young was going to reveal the fact that our ancestors came here from other worlds and that human life was seeded here by aliens who were seen as gods by the ancients.
That was pretty radical thinking in the 1800's,
and follows the new age theories that ancient sumerian texts reveal our ancestors were created by alien beings for the purpose of serving their
mining operations on this planet.

Youngs Adam/god theory and teachings were wisked away and buried in the literature of the church where no one could accidently dig them up and were considered as the ravings of an old man.
But several years ago a bright young researcher and Mormon historian found this material (and was excommunicated for his efforts to bring these documents to the public).
Now I dont believe any of this stuff, but it certainly is enteresting and it just could be that the reality of Youngs statement will be upheld at some point soon, not exactly the same line of thought but very closely resembling scientific theories of the seeding of life on earth from extra terrestrial material, finding it's way here.
Kinda fun to read and speculate about these cloak and dagger operations to get information being guarded by the church out into the main stream.
Wolf

One of the last sane

IMHO, Joseph Smith was just a con artist like L Ron Hubbard. IIRC, Smith was even a convicted con artist.

As for Brigham Young, he was the evil SOB who incited the Mountain Meadows MAssacre, which until Tim McVeigh came along was regarded as the worst act of terrorism committed in this country.

I have about as much regard for the founders of the Mormon church as I have for Jim Jones or David Koresh.

Marduk

"That was pretty radical thinking in the 1800's,
and follows the new age theories that ancient sumerian texts reveal our ancestors were created by alien beings for the purpose of serving their
mining operations on this planet."

I also find this theory fascinating, and it’s not just the Sumerians. I just found an old Irish collection of myths from the 12th Century called “The Book of Invasions” with similar stories to those of the Watchers and the Annunaki, the Celts called them the Tuatha Dan Daaman. Cool stuff.

[ September 29, 2002: Message edited by: marduck ]</p>

Ought Naught

It is my understanding that large portions of the Book of Mormon are taken almost verbatim from one of the books of the New Testament (sorry, can't remember which). Also, during Joseph Smith's translation of the golden plates -- using magic goggles, all hidden from the view of others by some sort of veil -- he lost a largish portion of it. Rather than re-translating the missing section (which should have been easy were there really golden plates), he had another visitation or revelation in which he was told that the missing section was false. Thereby, if the missing section were to resurface, any questions about why it wasn't identical to a retranslation were nipped in the bud.

sighhswolf

Thats understandable, I was always amazed how intelligent people could be so mislead.
LDS believe that the power of the priesthood was taken from the earth because there were none who
were worthy of the responsibility and power of such an office.
It was restored by god through Joseph Smith who was ordained by the spirits of John the Baptist, Mark, Luke,Matthew.
Those supposed "powers" included the "laying on of hands" where priesthood members gather around a member who is sick, form an unbroken circle of hands on the member and pray for gods assistance
in healing.
That is only one of the dumbass things LDS do.
One sunday of each month they have what is known as fast and testimony meetings.
All members must fast that day, and during the
service in the chapel a mic is passed around to the members so they can publically express their thanks to god and each must reaffirm their testimony as to the "truth" of the BOM and it's position as the only true restored church of christ kingdom on earth.
They have propaganda and brainwashing down to a fine art and use peer pressure, home visitations,
and arbitrary assignments of church functions and work to keep the members active and the church
as the number one priority in every members lives.
They could have written the universal cultist manual.
Of course these ideas are not unique to Mormonism,
but the zeal of mormon authorities is way above most other cults.
Most non-mormons have no real idea of the intensity of LDS doctrine and the churches aims
and goals with regard to what they see as their god ordained position on earth.
Sometimes it is rather unsettling and uncomfortable to think too much about.
Wolf