wade-w

No GeoTheo, I didn't say that at all. Also, the universe is not infinite. So where do you get the idea that there is an infinite number of things to do? Certainly there is a very large variety of things it would be possible to do. But the list would still be finite. So eventually you will have done everything that it is possible to do. Then you can start over. Your own bible says "there is nothing new under the sun."

But eternity means an infinite amount of time. I think you do not truly understand the concept of infinity. After the trillionth time you have done everything it is possible to do, and all the possible combinations and permutations, you will still have just as much time left.

GeoTheo

No offense but I do not think you understand the concept of eternality. As long as time does not stop you will never have done everything there is to do. And given quantum indeterminancy unless you are all knowing you will not be able to predict what will happen next.

Amaranth

Wow. Ad hominem again.

Let's try this again: On the contrary - I would say that, for my previously stated reasons, you are not a creative person.

Hint: Notice how this line of "debate" is doing nothing and going no where? Drop it. It's called a logical fallacy for a reason.

Blatantly untrue. Just because a person is creative does not mean they enjoy creating, much like saying that just because a person is stupid they enjoy not understanding things is not true. One does not dictate the other.

Yes, you look at it as though every day could somehow be fresh and new, with an endless source of things not only to do, but things that interest you. Eternally. Forever. This, by necessity, dictates that there are a infinite number of things in the universe to learn and do, and that within that inifinite group there is a subset infinite of subjects which would interest you, and are sufficiently different from every other thing in the subset not to make them redundant. On top of all this, which by itself seems extremely unlikely, you're still going off the basic assumption that you will have the freedom to do any and all of this in an unlimited fashion.

I don't? That's a neat trick you have there!

While you're dictating what I do and do not know, could you dictate me up some better guitar skills? I'm a bit sick of being a no-talent, but another decade of skill to go on top of the current one would be a great asset. Thanks.

Mixing unsupported assertions of deities and physics? Let's leave the god out of this thread as much as possible, ok? On to the physics:

Wrong. Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle is great and all, but you're forgetting a much more important facet of physics: The Second Law of Thermodynamics. In the trillion trillion years it takes the universe to acheive heat death, your time in eternity will have just started. A trillion years after that, it will have just started. Et cetera. Ad naseum.

Amaranth

Amaranth

This is getting tiresome. Let's reverse it:

"No offense, Theo, but you have absolutely no clue about this topic."

Drop the veiled insult, or just drop the veil. I don't care which.


So? How does this stave off boredome? I could say that since there are an infinite number of integers, I could spend all of eternity counting and never run our of things to do. However, the person who claims that this would not be boring after 5 millenia is lying to themselves.

Two words: Heat death.

spurly

Death will change us some, though I readily admit I don't know what changes it will bring because I haven't experienced it yet. On that score, I will just have to wait and see.

Quote:

All right, your beliefs in the afterlife are strikingly similar to those of a Unitarian friend of mine, and I think I have a handle on it. The question stands, though: Why would you want to live for eternity? Can you honestly imagine anything that could keep you happy forever without some fundemental change to your being? Amaranth

This is the first time I have ever been compared to a unitarian. (But since one of my goals is to unify the body of Christ, I guess I could also be compared to one on that score). I guess to answer your question, I can't imagine not existing. That may have been the case before I was born, but I can't imagine not being around. I'm the type of person who always finds something to do - even if it is just reading a good book. And I can not wait to try to fathom all the depths of God as I enter a closer relationship with him - that is something that will take an eternity to do.

Kevin

GeoTheo

So basically eternal life is boring because you say it is.
And after heat death everything stops and then you will be really bored. So you can imagine eternal life even though you don't believe in God but you can't imagine any worlds beyond ours nor new ones being formed after heat death in ours.
So since I am so dense and you all apparently have such a handle on this how many years will it take you to get bored given your already vast body of knowledge of the universe?
6? 1,000,000,000,000,000? 3,000,000,000,000,000?
all of these numbers are completely relative in eternality and therefore meaningless. But somehow the state of consciousness called "boredom" is not in your analogy.
If you can't give me a figure then you don't know for a fact you would get bored. Your analogy only makes sense if you assume that being eternal will use up and therefore stop the passage of time.
Assuming you existed outside of time you would exist in a constant state, which you have no way of knowing would be pleasant or not. Whatever it was, that is how you would remain forever. Your definition of eternality seems to translate "Long ass time" as it stands now.
I think that is a pretty primitive way to look at it, with all due respect.

Amaranth

Actually, the discussion thus far has been "Even a man of varied interests would grow bored in this finite system if stuck here for eternity." However, it is interesting that you would attempt to place us in the position of being rude and condescending, considering nearly every one of your posts has included a line similar in meaning to "I am better able to handle this than you."

Our world will not experience heat death - It will have the pleasure of being burned to a cinder by Sol, in all likelyhood. The universe as a whole, though, will eventually be nothing more than dispersed heat. Heat death. I can imagine all the other worlds I want - Eventually, the whole universe is dying.

Thermodynamics, bud. Entropy must increase.

We would tell you, but we're not as creative as you. Oh, no offense.

Please, get off the cross. You've been making veiled insults and ad hom's all throughout this, don't try and act like an abused innocent now.

Huh? How does that work? Time doesn't have to stop, you just have to be reasonable and admit that watching a cloud of heat disperse in a slightly different pattern today than it did yesterday is going to get quite old, quite fast.

Existing outside time? Stasis? Where did this come from, and how is it relevant?

And what is eternity besides an inifite amount of time?

e·ter·ni·ty
n. pl. e·ter·ni·ties

Time without beginning or end; infinite time

That's so neat - If I stick a few words about not meaning to be rude onto a sentance, it is instantly pious? All right:

On the contrary - No offense, but I think that you're lying to either us or yourself if you actually believe your stance as it stands. I also think, with all due respect, that you are merely being contrary now, as you have stopped defending your points completely in leui of wildly attacking with ad hominems and attempts to shift the burden of proof.

Amaranth

GeoTheo

I guess I really riled you up. Sorry.
No more "veiled ad homs". If you are not bored now why would you be bored a trillion years from now? You make it sound like there are only so many episodes of "Good Fellas" and if you lived forever you would watch them all and get bored. How could you reach the point where there were no "new episodes" so to speak? Do you think, given enough time, it is possible for a human to learn everything there is to know so that they can predict the future with 100% regularity? If so how?

Amaranth

Don't get yer hopes up This is the only non-flame board I read, and I believe in tit-for-tat when it comes to insults.

Knowledge is infinite, if for no other reason than integers. However, a vast amount of those integers, and other things in creation, are not going to be interesting. Those things which are still left over get cut down considerably when one looks at how many of them would be repititious; The panda bear scenario. After all of these subsets of infinity, are you still left with an infinite number?

I highly doubt it.

Amaranth

GeoTheo

Doubt it if you want but you are wrong. Infinity can only have an infinate number of subsets other wise it would just be big. Big doesn't compare to infinity. I think your problem lies in the fact that you think the human mind is a ble to comprehend everything there is to know.
I leave you with a quote form a book "Cat's Cradle" a book by Kurt Vonnegut, one of my favorite authors. It was a quote from a religious leader of a religion he made up called "Bokononism"
here goes:
Tiger got to hunt
Bird got to fly
Man has to ask "Why, why, why?"
Tiger got to sleep
Bird got to land
Man got to tell himself he understand

I think it applies to atheists as well as religious people. I think it accurately describes the human condition.