penumbra

Just dropped in to read this thread for my daily dose of humor.

Personally, I found Mibby529's most interesting claim to be "I'm saying anti-Indian racism is politically correct. " Does a lot to explain his/her attitude. Reminds me of Xians who claim they're the ones being being persecuted. Similar illogical arguments, too.

ps418

Again, you are too busy flagellating your own ridiculous strawmen to read what I wrote. First, I am referring to populations, not nebulous races. That populations exist, and that genetic differences characterize different populations, is a fact. Second, I stated that "extant native americans are more closely related to northeast Siberian populations than any other population of earth," so your statement that 98% of the population was killed off is completely irrelevant. Now that we've cleared that up, how do you explain the genetic evidence presented in the paper I cited? Just another conspiracy perpetrated by da man?

<a href="http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/AJHG_2002_v70_p192-206.pdf" target="_blank">The Dual Origin and Siberian Affinities of Native American Y Chromosomes. American Journal of Human Genetics 70:192-206, 2002</a>


Once again, I have already provided definitive evidence that man occupied the continental shelf during late glacial time. You ignored it. For instance, the following paper presents evidence for subarial exposure and human habitation of the northwest north american continental shelves at the end of the last glaciation:

Fedje, Daryl W., Heiner Josenhans, 2000. Drowned forests and archaeology on the continental shelf of British Columbia, Canada. Geology: Vol. 28, No. 2, pp. 99–102.

Cretinist

Mibby, why don't you just admit that you believe in some weird combination of evolution and Indian creation myths?

ps418

I should probably let this one go, but this is just too tempting. Mibby, are you really so ignorant as to think that there were no herbivores near Beringia? If so, I'll have to think of a new adjective to describe this level of ignorance. There are many Pleistocene sites with herbivore fossils in Alaska and Siberia. These include mammoths, bison and many other herbivores.

Here are some examples I found with 10 seconds worth of web-searching. You may want to try that sometime:

Gustafson, C.E., D. Gilbow and R.D. Daugherty. 1979. The Manis Mastodon site: early man on the Olympic Peninsula. Canadian Journal of Archaeology 3:157-164.

Guthrie, R.D. 1990. Frozen Fauna of the Mammoth Steppe. The Story of Blue Babe. University of Chicago Press, Chicago.

Harington, C.R. and F.V. Clulow. 1973. Pleistocene mammals from Gold Run Creek, Yukon Territory. Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences 10:697-759

Harington, C.R. 1978. Quaternary vertebrate faunas of Canada and Alaska and their suggested chronological sequence. Syllogeus 15:1-105.

Harington, C.R., 1989. Pleistocene Vertebrate Localities in the Yukon. In Late Cenozoic History of the Interior Basins of Alaska and the Yukon, ed. L.D. Carter, T.D. Hamilton and J.P. Galloway. U.S.G.S. Circular 10269, pp. 93-98.

Matheus, P.E. 1995. Diet and co-ecology of Pleistocene short-faced and brown bears in Eastern Beringia. Quaternary Research 44:447-453.

Morlan, R.E. 1987. The Pleistocene archaeology of Beringia. In The Evoloution of Human Hunting, edited by M.H. Nitecki and D.V. Nitecki, pp. 267-307. Plenum Press, New York.

Sternberg, C.M. 1960. New records of mastodons and mammoths in Canada. Canadian Field-Naturalist 44(3):59-65.

Vereshchagin, N.K. and Baryshnikov, O.F.,
1982. Paleoecology of the Mammoth Fauna in the Eurasian Arctic. In Paleoecology of Beringia, ed. D.M. Hopkins et al. (New York, Academic Press), pp. 267-279.

Kevin Dorner

A CNN story that ran yesterday:

<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/08/30/kennewick.man.ap/index.html" target="_blank">Judge: Scientists can study Kennewick Man</a>

mibby529

I don't. I've had it up to here with you ppl. You clearly cannot think critically.

Coragyps

Mibby, before an actual participant has to say it: Pot. Kettle. Etcetera.

Quetzal

Mibby:

I'm not asking you for a theory. I am even willing to (for the sake of discussion) stipulate all of your premises - no land bridge, no faunal exchange, no human migration from anywhere, no megafaunal extinctions, the whole idea was invented by Xian missionaries and conquistadores seeking to justify their genocide, etc.

However, my question is: since there is no doubt that North America was inhabited by humans prior to the arrival of the Europeans, where did the existing population come from?

Simple question requiring a straight answer. Not a strawman because I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm not postulating or advocating any theory of any kind.

Where did the native americans come from?

Oolon Colluphid

I've wondered about that phrase recently. I now tend to use 'pot, refrigerator, black'.

Oolon

Quetzal

I've been meaning to ask you about that - I don't get the reference. The "pot calling the kettle black" comes from the "good ol' days" when wood- or coal-burning stoves used to turn the bottoms of anything placed on the flame black with soot (you can see the modern homolog with a campfire - does the same thing). So where does the refrigerator bit come from?